Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

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Post #517441  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:48 am 
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socrates wrote:
.

Before you go off on one I am actually someone who wants to see Pépé start every week because I am hoping that something will eventually click and he can become the player we hoped for. With every passing game, though, I am less and less convinced that that will happen.


Might Pépé be moved in to be more centrally? He has the speed, the shots and the dribbling skills.

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Post #517442  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:03 am 
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Aubameyang on the wing smacks of Lord Bendtner on the wing, the vast gulf in class notwithstanding.

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Post #517443  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:35 pm 
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MOTD showed how pep used Walker’s pace as a right centre back to nullify Aubameyang’s runs. It’s surprising then that we didn’t move Aubameyang centrally to make them think. Could Dias have coped with the pace over the top? Unlikely. Walker has a fine game because all we asked him to do was use his incredible recovery pace.

I don’t think we can be too upset. Arteta has improved us a lot and clearly he’s set us up to be hard to beat and score against first. City were good yesterday, not as a relentless attacking force but as a team who squeezed the life out of the game, a serious and disciplined performance. I know it is a bit small club mentality but the fact Pep is doing that now, actually thinking about is rather than just going after us with wave after wave of attack shows were moving forward.


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Post #517444  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:55 pm 
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Its such a crazy and frustrating situation. We are absolutely desperate for creativity and the ability to break through the opposition lines, yet we have two players in the squad who in theory should be among the best in Europe as doing that. Özil and Pépé. Its such a shame that at vast expense we cant seem to utilise them effectively.


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Post #517445  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:08 pm 
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Man U score looks comfortable in the end yesterday at 4-1, but they were 4 mins away from a draw and it seemed that Man U only ended up scoring on the counter attack....If Newcastle had just kept thing a tight they’d have got the 1-1 easily. very similar to a lot of teams in the league at the moment, counter attacking is very much flavour of the moment


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Post #517446  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:09 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Man U score looks comfortable in the end yesterday at 4-1, but they were 4 mins away from a draw and it seemed that Man U only ended up scoring on the counter attack....If Newcastle had just kept thing a tight they’d have got the 1-1 easily. very similar to a lot of teams in the league at the moment, counter attacking is very much flavour of the moment

Another decision I can't understand is dropping Lacazette who has got three goals in the first three games.


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Post #517447  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:13 pm 
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I’m going to be in a minority on this one, perhaps a very small minority, or even a minority of one. But I honestly think the deficiencies in our midfield are being overstated. I also don’t think we’re as devoid of creativity as some make out. Seriously, how the hell can a team with the likes of Saka, Ceballos, Willian (and I know he’s started his Arsenal career slowly), Pépé (and I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea), with on the left Aubameyang lack creativity? Even Xhaka produced a couple of creative long balls yesterday that should have provided openings.

If we are falling short in creativity, I can’t help wondering if instead of pointing the finger of blame at the players, perhaps one should look at Arteta. After all it’s him that presumably sets the team up, and the players I listed above, to play the way he wants.


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Post #517448  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:03 pm 
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If you play a 2 man central midfield you need those 2 players to create.

We could have Cristiano Ronaldo up front and it wouldn’t make a blind difference because we create zero chances.

If all you have in the middle of the pitch is Granit “2nd touch is a yellow” Xhaka and Dani Cebackpass then you are in serious trouble.

They provide zero goal threat and zero creativity

There’s not many managers in the league who would turn down our front 3 from yesterday.


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Post #517449  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:17 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
I’m going to be in a minority on this one, perhaps a very small minority, or even a minority of one. But I honestly think the deficiencies in our midfield are being overstated. I also don’t think we’re as devoid of creativity as some make out. Seriously, how the hell can a team with the likes of Saka, Ceballos, Willian (and I know he’s started his Arsenal career slowly), Pépé (and I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea), with on the left Aubameyang lack creativity? Even Xhaka produced a couple of creative long balls yesterday that should have provided openings.

If we are falling short in creativity, I can’t help wondering if instead of pointing the finger of blame at the players, perhaps one should look at Arteta. After all it’s him that presumably sets the team up, and the players I listed above, to play the way he wants.


Look at the Man City squad from yesterday. Not only would Xhaka and Cebackpass not get in their first 11 they wouldn’t get on the bench either. You could probably say that about the chelsea and Liverpool squads if you looked at them too.

That’s the problem at the moment.


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Post #517450  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:25 pm 
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I think Ceballos is a really good player. He does have creativity, good ability, works hard and competes for the ball. I’ll be pleased if we sign him permanently next summer.


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Post #517451  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:26 pm 
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West Ham. Wow. :53big-emoticons: :53big-emoticons:


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Post #517452  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:28 pm 
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The point I am trying to make about Pépé is that if you think of Giggs in his pomp, how he used to pick up the ball on the half way line and jink his way past 2 or 3 players, taking them out of the game and opening up spaces for the other United forwards because defenders were being dragged out of position. We know to our cost what his mazy dribbles could do.

Ditto Hazard. Unplayable on his day with his quick feet and close control and he had quite a lot of those days.

Pépé has the dribbling skills to take players on but can he do it consistently, can he pick up the ball on the halfway line and go past 2 or 3 players, forcing defenders out of position. That's what I want to see from him.


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Post #517453  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:35 pm 
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socrates wrote:
The point I am trying to make about Pépé is that if you think of Giggs in his pomp, how he used to pick up the ball on the half way line and jink his way past 2 or 3 players, taking them out of the game and opening up spaces for the other United forwards because defenders were being dragged out of position. We know to our cost what his mazy dribbles could do.

Ditto Hazard. Unplayable on his day with his quick feet and close control and he had quite a lot of those days.

.


Giggs was able to do that because he had players like scholes and Keane making runs to take players with them. Likewise hazard who had lampard in attacking midfield positions. Threat all over. Pépé has 2 statues who couldn’t score in an Amsterdam knocking shop.

Likewise for Willian, Brazilian international with 70 caps and 10 international goals. Just became rubbish the moment he joined Arsenal? I’m not sure it’s that straightforward


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Post #517454  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:40 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
West Ham. Wow. :53big-emoticons: :53big-emoticons:

:15laughter: :15laughter: :15laughter:


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Post #517455  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Mark Noble provided more goals and assists on his own than Xhaka and Cebackpass combined last year. The problem is obvious


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Post #517456  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:53 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Mark Noble provided more goals and assists on his own than Xhaka and Cebackpass combined last year. The problem is obvious

God the way you take dislikes to certain players. Ceballos has more creativity in his little finger than Mark Noble. Look at that wonderful through ball to, think it was Lacazette, in a recent home game. If Lacazette hadn’t missed his one on one with the keeper, that would have been an assist.

Anyway, I think focussing only on assists is a lazy way of assessing creativity. There can be creative passes in the earlier build up play than the final ball to the scorer.


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Post #517457  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:08 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Mark Noble provided more goals and assists on his own than Xhaka and Cebackpass combined last year. The problem is obvious

God the way you take dislikes to certain players. Ceballos has more creativity in his little finger than Mark Noble. Look at that wonderful through ball to, think it was Lacazette, in a recent home game. If Lacazette hadn’t missed his one on one with the keeper, that would have been an assist.

Anyway, I think focussing only on assists is a lazy way of assessing creativity. There can be creative passes in the earlier build up play than the final ball to the scorer.


Yeah but at some point surely he has to put the ball in the net againest a decent side. No goals and 3 assists in 30 league games. He doesn’t even get in the box to score so it’s not like he’s rattled the bar on many occasions and is unlucky.

Every game passes him by without making any discernible contribution that could win the game. He’s busy in midfield recycling possession but makes zero runs. Come on Bernard it’s ridiculous both him and Xhaka. Even Gilberto stuck one in every once and a while.


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Post #517458  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:31 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Mark Noble provided more goals and assists on his own than Xhaka and Cebackpass combined last year. The problem is obvious

God the way you take dislikes to certain players. Ceballos has more creativity in his little finger than Mark Noble. Look at that wonderful through ball to, think it was Lacazette, in a recent home game. If Lacazette hadn’t missed his one on one with the keeper, that would have been an assist.

Anyway, I think focussing only on assists is a lazy way of assessing creativity. There can be creative passes in the earlier build up play than the final ball to the scorer.


Hi Bernard,

I think I read somewhere that in terms of chances created over the last few months we are something like 16th-18th in the PL, which is crazy for a team with one of the best forwards in world football.


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Post #517459  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:59 pm 
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I still think assists is a lazy way of measuring creativity. Henry got more assists for Arsenal than Bergkamp did. For me, I still see Bergkamp as the most creative passer of the two. But on the ‘number of assists’ measure, Henry was. By the way, let me clarify that I still see Henry as the greatest player I’ve seen in an Arsenal shirt. Just not the most creative,

socrates, I suggest you look more at Arteta for the explanation of your stat than the players.


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Post #517460  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:38 pm 
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Hoping that this doesn’t involve Thomas Partey.

https://www.skysports.com/share/12107800

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Post #517461  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:47 pm 
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Arteta has clearly prioritised defensive solidity in his attempts to improve the team. In my view, that is the correct approach to take. He has done that in a quite rigid possession-based framework. I dont particularly like that, but then again, I don't really like the way football has gone in the last 5 years. Playing triangles with the keeper and working it to break through the press is possibly the most effective way to deal with the Pep/Klopp approach and the press itself seems to have nullified genuine progressive passing and dribbling through central midfield. This is what Arteta is trying to achieve and it was inevitable that the attacking play would be somewhat stiffled. A switch to a back four and a more dynamic midfield is probably the next step. He had to fix the defence first though.

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Post #517462  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:53 pm 
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socrates wrote:
The point I am trying to make about Pépé is that if you think of Giggs in his pomp, how he used to pick up the ball on the half way line and jink his way past 2 or 3 players, taking them out of the game and opening up spaces for the other United forwards because defenders were being dragged out of position. We know to our cost what his mazy dribbles could do.

Ditto Hazard. Unplayable on his day with his quick feet and close control and he had quite a lot of those days.

Pépé has the dribbling skills to take players on but can he do it consistently, can he pick up the ball on the halfway line and go past 2 or 3 players, forcing defenders out of position. That's what I want to see from him.

Soc, why are you comparing Pépé to Hazard and peak Giggs? Did you honestly think he would be that good? Taking that approach I would be disappointed in Tierney for not reaching the standards of Ashley Cole or Stuart Pearce.

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Post #517463  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:55 pm 
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dec wrote:
socrates wrote:
The point I am trying to make about Pépé is that if you think of Giggs in his pomp, how he used to pick up the ball on the half way line and jink his way past 2 or 3 players, taking them out of the game and opening up spaces for the other United forwards because defenders were being dragged out of position. We know to our cost what his mazy dribbles could do.

Ditto Hazard. Unplayable on his day with his quick feet and close control and he had quite a lot of those days.

Pépé has the dribbling skills to take players on but can he do it consistently, can he pick up the ball on the halfway line and go past 2 or 3 players, forcing defenders out of position. That's what I want to see from him.

Soc, why are you comparing Pépé to Hazard and peak Giggs? Did you honestly think he would be that good? Taking that approach I would be disappointed in Tierney for not reaching the standards of Ashley Cole or Stuart Pearce.

Well if you want to be top four regularly that is what is required of those 2 players.

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Post #517464  Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:58 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
dec wrote:
Soc, why are you comparing Pépé to Hazard and peak Giggs? Did you honestly think he would be that good? Taking that approach I would be disappointed in Tierney for not reaching the standards of Ashley Cole or Stuart Pearce.

Well if you want to be top four regularly that is what is required of those 2 players.

No it isn’t. Clubs with worse players than Pépé and Tierney, let alone Hazard and Giggs or Cole and Pearce, have ended in the top four.


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Post #517465  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:33 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Come on, that's really unfair. He has about 50 tools in his locker that Gervinho's never had - a great left foot being one of them. He definitely needs to show his quality on a more consistent basis, but comparing him to a player who can't strike the ball and who has never had a killer pass in him is way over the top. Let's not forget Pépé came on to win the game for us against Sheffield United not long ago, and Im not really sure why he seems to be singled out so much after games like these. We could start with Aubameyang instead, who has been almost invisible since signing his huge contract. Scored 29 goals as a left forward last season, so his position is hardly an excuse.


Yes your right Haz Pépé is an easy target and people are searching for reasons to dig Leno out too.

Its odd the way they dig those guys out but ignore that we barely created a chance. Ceballos and Xhaka whilst working hard turned in a performance that Ray Wilkins would have been proud of....

Back, sideways, Back, sideways, Back, sideways, Back, sideways, Back, sideways, .......... either get a nosebleed when they run into the opposing penalty area.

If Saka wasn’t on the pitch yesterday we wouldn’t have had a shot on goal.


Always thought Ceballos was all energy but very limited impact. He gives us next to nothing for the offensive play.

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Post #517466  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:36 am 
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Bernard wrote:
I’m going to be in a minority on this one, perhaps a very small minority, or even a minority of one. But I honestly think the deficiencies in our midfield are being overstated. I also don’t think we’re as devoid of creativity as some make out. Seriously, how the hell can a team with the likes of Saka, Ceballos, Willian (and I know he’s started his Arsenal career slowly), Pépé (and I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea), with on the left Aubameyang lack creativity? Even Xhaka produced a couple of creative long balls yesterday that should have provided openings.

If we are falling short in creativity, I can’t help wondering if instead of pointing the finger of blame at the players, perhaps one should look at Arteta. After all it’s him that presumably sets the team up, and the players I listed above, to play the way he wants.


I do agree with you. Arteta should be changing things up and allow the creativity to come from the players.

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Post #517467  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:56 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Well if you want to be top four regularly that is what is required of those 2 players.

No it isn’t. Clubs with worse players than Pépé and Tierney, let alone Hazard and Giggs or Cole and Pearce, have ended in the top four.

Yep ended in the top 4 but did you miss the word regularly- obviously you did. Pépé is no better than Theo at the moment and Tierney has some improving to do.

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Post #517468  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:04 am 
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2 big talking points on the weekend I think have been discussed totally differently by the media than if we were involved in them.

Spurs managing to draw 3-3 after being 3-0 up in the 81st minute. MOTD2 last night didn’t once talk about terrible spurs defending, how they were mentally terrified or their soft under belly. West Ham we’re the main focus for attacking to the end. And then it moved to ‘there are still huge positives spurs can take from the game’ I’ve seen a similar approach across the wider football media. Can you imagine that was us, or Man U or City throwing away that lead. The focus would be firmly on that defence leaking those 3 goals in 9 minutes!

Also the horrific tackle and subsequent injury to Van Dijk. I’ve seen former ref Keith Hackett come out and compare the tackle to Roy Keane on Haaland. Plenty of others calling for a retrospective red and a general foot down moment with var and dangerous tackles in the game. Quite the departure from the ‘he’s not that type of player’ and ‘you invite those sorts of tackles with the quick, short passing game’


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Post #517469  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:57 am 
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socrates wrote:
The point I am trying to make about Pépé is that if you think of Giggs in his pomp, how he used to pick up the ball on the half way line and jink his way past 2 or 3 players, taking them out of the game and opening up spaces for the other United forwards because defenders were being dragged out of position. We know to our cost what his mazy dribbles could do.

Ditto Hazard. Unplayable on his day with his quick feet and close control and he had quite a lot of those days.

Pépé has the dribbling skills to take players on but can he do it consistently, can he pick up the ball on the halfway line and go past 2 or 3 players, forcing defenders out of position. That's what I want to see from him.


I'm not convinced by Pépé either. Scored in the last game and was puffing around like a rooster like he was the best striker ever and then disappeared completely. I also don't know where this pace of his is supposed to be because I can't recall him beating the lb on pace in many games. Not does he seem like the type who can play off the shoulder of his man and get in behind.

His set ball delivery is pretty good and his workrate was higher against Man City even if it didn't lead to anything. Haven't written him off but thought there would have been more from him so far.

Like Dec said I'm hoping that the focus on defense which had to be #1 priority after a decade of shambles is the first step and now Arteta can turn his attention to the attack. This may help Pépé.


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Post #517470  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:00 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Just rewatching the game. In the 41st minute Aguero (who I like as a player) got in a small dispute with the lineswoman about a throw. But what i found very disturbing was that Aguero then touched her around the upper arm or neck. It was not in a threatening manner but I am afraid that is a real no no in my view. Would he have done it to a male and if so it is still wrong. He should face disciplinary proceedings for this. What has also surprised me is the lack of reaction in the UK media.

I don't think Man City are anywhere near the side of 2 years ago but they controlled the game which is a problem. They looked like they were in 2nd gear and if they had to could have lifted. Trying for a result after their last 2 games.


I'm with you and thought the Aguero arm across the shoulder was just creepy. The lineswoman visibly shirked away from it as well which made it look worse.


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Post #517471  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:12 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Bernard wrote:
No it isn’t. Clubs with worse players than Pépé and Tierney, let alone Hazard and Giggs or Cole and Pearce, have ended in the top four.

Yep ended in the top 4 but did you miss the word regularly- obviously you did. Pépé is no better than Theo at the moment and Tierney has some improving to do.

Yes I did see the word ‘regularly’ and I still don’t think your point is valid. I wouldn’t swap Tierney for Danny Rose and as much as I rated Clichy and Monreal I wouldn’t swap them for him either. Nor would I for Luke Shaw. I’d also rather have Pépé than the Mkhitaryan we saw at Manchester United, and Theo for that matter.


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Post #517472  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:31 am 
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dec wrote:
socrates wrote:
The point I am trying to make about Pépé is that if you think of Giggs in his pomp, how he used to pick up the ball on the half way line and jink his way past 2 or 3 players, taking them out of the game and opening up spaces for the other United forwards because defenders were being dragged out of position. We know to our cost what his mazy dribbles could do.

Ditto Hazard. Unplayable on his day with his quick feet and close control and he had quite a lot of those days.

Pépé has the dribbling skills to take players on but can he do it consistently, can he pick up the ball on the halfway line and go past 2 or 3 players, forcing defenders out of position. That's what I want to see from him.

Soc, why are you comparing Pépé to Hazard and peak Giggs? Did you honestly think he would be that good? Taking that approach I would be disappointed in Tierney for not reaching the standards of Ashley Cole or Stuart Pearce.


Hi Dec,

So what were you expecting for £70m, a player who is not even one of the first names on the teamsheet?

Clearly I am not saying he should be as good as those two but I think it was nor unreasonable, given his skillset, to have expected a player in that mould.


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Post #517473  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:36 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Yep ended in the top 4 but did you miss the word regularly- obviously you did. Pépé is no better than Theo at the moment and Tierney has some improving to do.

Yes I did see the word ‘regularly’ and I still don’t think your point is valid. I wouldn’t swap Tierney for Danny Rose and as much as I rated Clichy and Monreal I wouldn’t swap them for him either. Nor would I for Luke Shaw. I’d also rather have Pépé than the Mkhitaryan we saw at Manchester United, and Theo for that matter.


Hi Bern,

I think its too early to tell with Tierney. I love his attitude, his aggression, his work ethic and his crossing ability. I am not yet convinced he is the best one-v-one fullback I've ever seen though.


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Post #517474  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:46 am 
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Bernard wrote:
I’d also rather have Pépé than the Mkhitaryan we saw at Manchester United, and Theo for that matter.


Walcott's best season for us was 2012/13. He got 14 goals and 12 assists in the league and 21 goals and 16 assists overall. Would love to see Pépé match or surpass those numbers for us.


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Post #517475  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:56 am 
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socrates wrote:
dec wrote:
Soc, why are you comparing Pépé to Hazard and peak Giggs? Did you honestly think he would be that good? Taking that approach I would be disappointed in Tierney for not reaching the standards of Ashley Cole or Stuart Pearce.


Hi Dec,

So what were you expecting for £70m, a player who is not even one of the first names on the teamsheet?

Clearly I am not saying he should be as good as those two but I think it was nor unreasonable, given his skillset, to have expected a player in that mould.


If Arteta can mould Pépé to be like Mahrez that would be 72m somewhat well spent in the crazy world of Premier League.


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Post #517476  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:56 am 
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Looking at the personell we have available, you have to think our problem with creating chances (although to be fair, we had 3-4 good ones against City, and at least two of them being of the caliber where you'd expect Saka and Aubameyang to score) is a collective issue. We all know Aubameyang is a world class goal scorer. As Top Gun said, Willian hasn't suddenly become crap just because he moved to Arsenal, he has proven his quality over many years in England. Pépé has all the tools to be a creative force; pace, he can dribble past his defender, he can hit a killer pass and he can score. Saka is one of England's brightest talents. When all of these players combined aren't making it happen, it can't be just down to the individual quality or loss of form. I'm sure it's something Arteta is looking at, as detail oriented as he is.


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Post #517477  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:00 am 
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It honestly reminds me a bit of when our defense was still leaking goals like crazy, and most of our defenders were under fire. We've seen that stabilize significantly under Arteta, with the likes of Luiz, Mustafi and Holding putting in much improved performances. You need the right players obviously, but in a broken system it doesn't matter if you buy new players, it's not going to improve much until you start defending as a team. I think the same applies to the attacking side of things.


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Post #517478  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:00 am 
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With the slightly bonkers nature of the league at the moment, no team defending well or keeping clean sheets I wonder what will prevail at the end - will it be the teams who has the better defence (or least worst defence) or will it be the teams who just score more than their opponents.

History tells us that defences win titles. That is too high an aim for us. But if we pit ourselves against Man U, Chelsea, Spurs and maybe Everton and a couple of others for those champions league places are we going to be better suited to getting there with fewer goals scored and conceded vs teams who score a lot and concede a lot?


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Post #517479  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:04 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Looking at the personell we have available, you have to think our problem with creating chances (although to be fair, we had 3-4 good ones against City, and at least two of them being of the caliber where you'd expect Saka and Aubameyang to score) is a collective issue. We all know Aubameyang is a world class goal scorer. As Top Gun said, Willian hasn't suddenly become crap just because he moved to Arsenal, he has proven his quality over many years in England. Pépé has all the tools to be a creative force; pace, he can dribble past his defender, he can hit a killer pass and he can score. Saka is one of England's brightest talents. When all of these players combined aren't making it happen, it can't be just down to the individual quality or loss of form. I'm sure it's something Arteta is looking at, as detail oriented as he is.

There are few things that stand out for me.
1. Still not moving the ball quickly enough through the lines
2. not making the right off the ball runs (watch Son for Spurs for the best in the league at this)
3. most of our play being 80 yards from the opponents goal. Even if we do break the lines and get an attacking overload we've still got at least half the pitch to travel. Defenders back off to the safety of their own box, our attack slows, they funnel back and we lost the chance


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Post #517480  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:23 am 
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The big takeaway league wide for me this weekend is the Pickford tackle on Van Dijk. I can even forget the offside call on Mané that looked onside - they probably saw some part of his shirt being on the wrong side in one of the still photos or whatever. Maybe they showed the wrong pictures on TV.

But if they can seriously look at that Pickford challenge and say it's nothing, then those people need to work with something else. He comes in flying, gets none off the ball, and takes out the players knee - anywhere on the pitch, in any situation, that's a red card. Van Dijk possibly being offside surely can't offset that - if you can show a red card to the manager or someone on the substitutes bench, you can show a red card for an assault on a player in an offside position. The fact that someone can look at it, over and over again, from multiple angles, and come to the conclusion it's not a challenge worthy of any punishment is just mind-boggling.


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