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Post #512201  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 5:02 am 
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Riveting. :53big-emoticons:

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Post #512202  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 5:09 am 
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Letting dodgy oligarchs and American carpetbaggers into the PL as owners is one thing. The MBS interest in Newcastle is a new low. The NFL in America looks not only at a prospective owner's ability to finance the team but also the character of the person. Baseball does as well.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52651771
Newcastle United fans urged to resist Saudi Arabia fund takeover

The message came in an open letter from Hatice Cengiz, who is the fiancee of murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

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Post #512203  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Riveting. :53big-emoticons:


Don't laugh. I had money on that.


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Post #512204  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 8:07 am 
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dec wrote:
There is no perfect solution. Every single suggested plan will have weaknesses.

Neutral venues has obvious problems. Behind closed doors is drab. But if you rule out the behind closed doors option, you are saying football is gone until there is a vaccine or effective treatment.

If the behind closed doors option is deemed inherently unfair, next season cannot commence until mass gatherings are deemed safe. If the season starts behind closed doors, it can't be opened up because that would be unfair...if that is the overriding factor in whether or not to play games.

So wait until mass gatherings are safe and then finish the season, whenever that might be. Or maybe accept some compromise, albeit an imperfect one.

According to the Mirror, clubs see a possibility that the entire 2020/21 season could be played behind closed doors. The ideal scenario is obviously the whole season being played with crowds at games. But if that isn’t going to be possible, playing the whole season behind closed doors is at least fairer regarding the winning of the league, qualifying for Europe and relegation than playing part of the season behind closed doors and partly with crowds attending.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... newsletter


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Post #512205  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:32 am 
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Bernard wrote:
dec wrote:
There is no perfect solution. Every single suggested plan will have weaknesses.

Neutral venues has obvious problems. Behind closed doors is drab. But if you rule out the behind closed doors option, you are saying football is gone until there is a vaccine or effective treatment.

If the behind closed doors option is deemed inherently unfair, next season cannot commence until mass gatherings are deemed safe. If the season starts behind closed doors, it can't be opened up because that would be unfair...if that is the overriding factor in whether or not to play games.

So wait until mass gatherings are safe and then finish the season, whenever that might be. Or maybe accept some compromise, albeit an imperfect one.

According to the Mirror, clubs see a possibility that the entire 2020/21 season could be played behind closed doors. The ideal scenario is obviously the whole season being played with crowds at games. But if that isn’t going to be possible, playing the whole season behind closed doors is at least fairer regarding the winning of the league, qualifying for Europe and relegation than playing part of the season behind closed doors and partly with crowds attending.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... newsletter

Say the season starts behind closed doors and then a vaccine is available in January, for example. Does the season continue with no crowds allowed even though it would then be deemed safe for stadia to be full again? There is no chance of that happening.

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Post #512206  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:46 am 
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I was watching Mad Men, Season 7, episode 1, this song came on and I liked it. I was shocked to see they were a Brum group! I was expecting some Motown looking group from the sound, accent, etc. Wow! Good song. Any of you old geezers remember them?


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Post #512207  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 10:24 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I was watching Mad Men, Season 7, episode 1, this song came on and I liked it. I was shocked to see they were a Brum group! I was expecting some Motown looking group from the sound, accent, etc. Wow! Good song. Any of you old geezers remember them?

Hi AG - don't want to come over too old fogeyish here,but just as there was football before Sky TV, so there was music before MTV! My generation, to use a line from a classic London anthem, had the greatest popular music you could wish for, and Stevie Winwood was - still is - a shining star. Try this one from 1965! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kamXvqoL_JA

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Post #512208  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:30 pm 
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Good stuff, omoh. They've got a new fan...belatedly, but a fan nonetheless.

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Post #512209  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:33 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Good stuff, omoh. They've got a new fan...belatedly, but a fan nonetheless.

Spencer Davis Group and Stevie Winwood forums across the internet, brace yourselves.


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Post #512210  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:59 pm 
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Dele Alli tells of 'horrible experience' after assault and robbery

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/14/foot ... index.html


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Post #512211  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 1:55 pm 
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Once the antibodies test is carried out then hopefully they will see sense and allow games to return to normal with a proviso that only fans that can provide a certificate to show that they have been tested can enter grounds. Same applies to players no doubt?

Imo and from what I've read the virus is no longer a danger once you've had it, similar to measles etc etc. so what's the problem. Those who haven't had it can continue self isolating or take the chance and make themselves accessible to the virus in a controlled environment.

From this point on everything can go back to normal can it not?


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Post #512212  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 5:47 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Good stuff, omoh. They've got a new fan...belatedly, but a fan nonetheless.
Fast forward nearly half a century for the mature performer. Still got it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSn2Y-b6wI

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Post #512213  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 7:47 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Imo and from what I've read the virus is no longer a danger once you've had it, similar to measles etc etc. so what's the problem.


Sorry Bubbs but there’s no evidence that that’s the case. None.

The presence of antibodies has not yet been proved to afford any sort of immunity to Covid 19. Hopefully it will be the case, and there’s a reasonable expectation, but it is not yet a fact.

This virus is from the same family as the common cold from which we have still never found a reliable defence.


Sorry Rog - cocked up the quotes - again!!


Last edited by warrior on Fri May 15, 2020 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fixed quote


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Post #512214  Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:27 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Once the antibodies test is carried out then hopefully they will see sense and allow games to return to normal with a proviso that only fans that can provide a certificate to show that they have been tested can enter grounds. Same applies to players no doubt?

Imo and from what I've read the virus is no longer a danger once you've had it, similar to measles etc etc. so what's the problem. Those who haven't had it can continue self isolating or take the chance and make themselves accessible to the virus in a controlled environment.

From this point on everything can go back to normal can it not?


Bubble,

I think there's some way to go before anyone fully understands this virus and no one can safely assume immunity. Even if there is some immunity it may not be lasting.

Crowds won't be allowed back until there is a vaccine or effective treatment (or the virus goes away or mutates into something less deadly). I suspect a treatment may come before a vaccine despite the scientific community's best efforts. They may stumble upon a cocktail of drugs, new or existing, that work to reduce its potency. Let's face it they've been trying to develop a vaccine for AIDS since the 80s.


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Post #512215  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:31 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Good stuff, omoh. They've got a new fan...belatedly, but a fan nonetheless.
Fast forward nearly half a century for the mature performer. Still got it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSn2Y-b6wI


Winwood is obviously a famous name I'm familiar with as a solo artist and his connection to Clapton at one time. Had no idea about the connection to the Spencer Davis Group or the group itself. Thanks.

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Post #512216  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:42 am 
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Amazing how some people think this pandemic is like a movie and we'll come up with a cure in the same time frame (a few weeks). We still haven't found a cure for the various diseases some of them related to the current one in the last 30 or 40 years. And these preceding diseases killed far less people. Was there ever a cure for the Spanish Flu?
Amazing. Yes, we all hope and pray for it but some people think its a foregone conclusion. They expect it. Demand it almost.

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Post #512217  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:49 am 
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Fabregas. Arsenal legend. :53big-emoticons: :9adore-boo:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... d-22030531
Thierry Henry recalls what he told Arsene Wenger on Cesc Fabregas' first day at Arsenal

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Post #512218  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:52 am 
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Like all of you are thinking, I am also thinking "It must be Mustafi? No?" :42laughter:
https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... s-18249992
Mikel Arteta already has the perfect partner for William Saliba at Arsenal

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Post #512219  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:28 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Like all of you are thinking, I am also thinking "It must be Mustafi? No?" :42laughter:
https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... s-18249992
Mikel Arteta already has the perfect partner for William Saliba at Arsenal


I hope Mustafi gets a 10 year contract and is made club captain.

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Post #512220  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:53 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Like all of you are thinking, I am also thinking "It must be Mustafi? No?" :42laughter:
https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... s-18249992
Mikel Arteta already has the perfect partner for William Saliba at Arsenal


I hope Mustafi gets a 10 year contract and is made club captain.

That makes two of us Gunfire. Think how our friend from across the Atlantic would react. It would almost be as funny as Allardyce (or to use the name he always uses ‘fat Sam’) getting appointed as manager.

In actual fact I think Mustafi does have the characteristics and temperament as an individual, hence the kind of personality, that would make him a more than decent captain.


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Post #512221  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 12:52 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Winwood is obviously a famous name I'm familiar with as a solo artist and his connection to Clapton at one time. Had no idea about the connection to the Spencer Davis Group or the group itself. Thanks.
He is such a versatile musician - keyboards, guitar and vocals - that he quite often made guest appearances with other artists. You can see him fleetingly on this star-filled and exceptional version of a George Harrison classic, which has a phenomenal finale.


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Last edited by warrior on Fri May 15, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fixed YouTube link


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Post #512222  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:54 pm 
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What a wonderful eclectic group of artists. I love these kinds of collaborations. Doesn't matter the genre of music, the great ones respect other greats. Its like that in sports. Becks is a huge fan of Michael Jordan. With football becoming more popular, you have NBA greats like LeBron James a huge fan of the stars on Liverpool.
So it is with music. At award shows, rockers, rappers, jazz artists, country singers, etc, milling about back stage each a fan of the other and this extends globally.

I knew the least about Jeff Lynne, although I'm well aware of ELO by reputation. Looked up the bio of Lynne, didn't know he was a Brummie as well. Seems like that city has a rich musical CV.

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Post #512223  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:17 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Fast forward nearly half a century for the mature performer. Still got it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSn2Y-b6wI


Winwood is obviously a famous name I'm familiar with as a solo artist and his connection to Clapton at one time. Had no idea about the connection to the Spencer Davis Group or the group itself. Thanks.

Blind Faith group had Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker (deceased) and Ric Grech (deceased).

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Post #512224  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:28 pm 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
According to the Mirror, clubs see a possibility that the entire 2020/21 season could be played behind closed doors. The ideal scenario is obviously the whole season being played with crowds at games. But if that isn’t going to be possible, playing the whole season behind closed doors is at least fairer regarding the winning of the league, qualifying for Europe and relegation than playing part of the season behind closed doors and partly with crowds attending.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... newsletter

Say the season starts behind closed doors and then a vaccine is available in January, for example. Does the season continue with no crowds allowed even though it would then be deemed safe for stadia to be full again? There is no chance of that happening.

Exactly. The fairest thing is to finish the season behind closed doors when it is deemed safe enough to do so. There is no precedent for abandoning a season so late in the season and the precedent would be appalling.

I hope that people's definition of fairness wouldn't be different if it was Arsenal that was currently top of the log.

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Post #512225  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:41 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
The season, that was planned must be just about over now. (mid May) Its over - full stop. It is void and I personally will not recognise anything from this season other than Man City won the League Cup.

If Liverpool somehow end up with the title, I will be making it clear to any of their fans that they did not earn or deserve it.

Fair - *%^@ fair - its football. I will recognise it if the FA recognise there was a handball in one of those cups we lost (was it Liverpool probably 20 years ago) and reverse the result and award it to us. They can also reverse the decision where Socrates scored and it was chalked off because of a supposed foul by Chalmers against Crystal Palace. Fair, fair - *%^@ me.

At least you admit that your position has nothing to do with fairness. Its at least honest.

But I doubt that the Liverpool fans' satisfaction will be diminished by your disdain. In fact it will probably add extra savour to their victory ...

Liverpool having the title taken away literally at the death would be an absolutely unique event. The little injustices you refer to ... a handball here and a disallowed goal there ... there are literally thousands of those and we've benefited roughly as much as we've been deprived. Its a ludicrous comparison.

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Post #512226  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:58 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
"Laughing your head off' is a common expression here too, thanks.

To reinterate: the issue is not that we don't understand each other. It is that we disagree, about the issue and about the usage of words like ghoulish and deprived. That is why I say it is pointless to debate.

Back to the more interesting point. I don't disagree that it is less than ideal to have empty or neutral venues, and to change the rules partway through the season. However, since you are now talking about 'rules', what are the rules of the competition? Does it say anywhere that there must be crowds? And more importantly, if you scrap the season altogether aren't you changing the rules partway through the season rather drastically?

Are you seriously saying you don’t see banning fans from games partway through the season, regardless of whether games are played at neutral venues or each team’s own stadium, as a highly significant rule change? I do, because it inevitably makes the season uneven.

Sides play two games against each other, one at home and one away. Home advantage is normally a significant benefit because the big majority of the crowd will be supporting them. So teams will play opponents with one enjoying the advantage of playing opponents while enjoying the support of the home crowd. But inevitably return games from now will take place with the other team not enjoying that benefit in their home game. That strikes me as unfair, particularly when sides are in direct opposition (see my previous West Ham/Aston Villa example, though numerous others will apply just as equally).

I see null and voiding the season as more a question of bringing good or bad luck into the equation. Very bad luck on Liverpool and extremely fortunate for Norwich (perhaps the two most obvious Premier League examples). But I think good or bad luck is preferable to unfairness. You appear to disagree. Fair enough. I’ve no doubt you’ll consider your viewpoint as the right one, as I will do with my argument.

I also don’t think ghoulish is the right word to use for laughing at Liverpool’s misfortune, if it happens. I’ve heard some of their fans talk of the club’s thirty years without a league title as not just a disaster for English football but a national tragedy. Arsenal supporting fans I know from the north know of such claims too. That’s why I perceive Liverpool supporters as the most ‘up their own arse’ fans in the country.

That’s also why I am happy to use the expression ‘laugh my head off’ to describe my reaction to them not winning the title from the season being voided (obviously my head won’t literally fall off). I don’t see that reaction as ghoulish. If their fans lose the chance to celebrate a title win at home, my reaction will be tough luck rather than seeing them as so deprived of the excuse to celebrate or the club not being able to add the 2020 Premier League to their honours list. Big bloody deal. I can think of circumstances way more relevant to the words ghoulish and deprived. Hence my perception of you stretching things.

You don't address my point.

My point is that, regardless of whether a not having fans is a rule change (as far as I can tell it is not), not playing the full season IS a rule change. Extending the league beyond may, or starting in any month other than august, would also be a rule change.

And I disagree with your definition of luck. Luck refers to something that is out of anyones hand's. Like which balls come up in the lotto, or whether a deflected shot flies into a goal, or whether an opponent is fighting hard against relegation or is just cruising along.

Deciding on what to do with the rest of the season is not in the hands of fate.

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Post #512227  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:49 pm 
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Not great news here about a fine player

https://apple.news/AUPTnvNEMSBim5O4_PSqypw

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Post #512228  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:04 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
You don't address my point.

My point is that, regardless of whether a not having fans is a rule change (as far as I can tell it is not), not playing the full season IS a rule change. Extending the league beyond may, or starting in any month other than august, would also be a rule change.

And I disagree with your definition of luck. Luck refers to something that is out of anyones hand's. Like which balls come up in the lotto, or whether a deflected shot flies into a goal, or whether an opponent is fighting hard against relegation or is just cruising along.

Deciding on what to do with the rest of the season is not in the hands of fate.

Well at least you’ve stopped trying to use words like deprived and ghoulish to justify your desperation for Liverpool to be awarded the title. The start of the pandemic was surely out of football’s hands so if the season ends up voided because of it, I see that as bad luck for teams like Liverpool and good luck for Norwich (as the most obvious Premier League examples).

I simply don’t see how you can’t see stopping fans from attending games partway through the season as a rule change. That’s why I addressed your point. In my view you’re just trying to defend the position you have adopted. How can it not be a rule change to stop fans attending games when they were for previous fixtures? As far as I’m aware clubs won’t be given the option of allowing fans into their stadiums, and I’m not saying they should be at this point either. That’s why it has to be a rule change, and one that will inevitably (I would suggest) impact on home advantage and therefore results.

Hence such a rule change affects the season, and I think unfairly. I’m not bothered about Liverpool being given the title, as you seem to be. I’ve described previously why I perceive them as the most ‘up their own arses’ fans in the country. Their disappointment would amuse me greatly which, as I’ve explained, is why I used the expression ‘laugh my head off’ to describe my reaction to them if the season is voided.


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Post #512229  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:12 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Not great news here about a fine player

https://apple.news/AUPTnvNEMSBim5O4_PSqypw

Very sad. As I’ve said, I rate Sansom as the best left back I’ve seen play for the club. But my sadness is not related to that. I’d be sad if he was one the worst players.


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Post #512230  Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:22 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Not great news here about a fine player

https://apple.news/AUPTnvNEMSBim5O4_PSqypw


Sad to hear.

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Post #512231  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:12 am 
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Good luck Kenny


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Post #512232  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:59 am 
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Although its a compilation of the teams he played on, I thought I knew all the great moves he did for Arsenal. A few of these I don't recall at all. The first two.


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Post #512233  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 9:20 am 
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You need some luck. You can't go undefeated without luck. And its not like clubs haven't come close. There are a number of sides, Arsenal included that have gone the season with only a loss in the past.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... hreat.html
'Teams are getting closer': Jamie Carragher warns Arsenal their Invincibles record has never been under greater threat... but admits Liverpool's effort this season 'shows how tough it is' to go unbeaten

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Post #512234  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:32 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
...I knew the least about Jeff Lynne, although I'm well aware of ELO by reputation. Looked up the bio of Lynne, didn't know he was a Brummie as well. Seems like that city has a rich musical CV.
Yes very rich - The Moody Blues for instance. If you look closely you can just spot me up on the hill by my tent listening to this one way back when dinosaurs walked the Isle of Wight. 600,000 were there! And how small the stage seems.

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Last edited by warrior on Sat May 16, 2020 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #512235  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 2:16 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Yes very rich - The Moody Blues for instance.

I used to blast the Moody Blues back in college on a huge stereo I had.
My neighbours liked it too. They hurled a brick threw my window just so they could hear it better.


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Post #512236  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 2:29 pm 
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Zed wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:

Winwood is obviously a famous name I'm familiar with as a solo artist and his connection to Clapton at one time. Had no idea about the connection to the Spencer Davis Group or the group itself. Thanks.

Blind Faith group had Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker (deceased) and Ric Grech (deceased).


I had no idea prior that Clatpon and Winwood were in the same group. I've only really known Winwood as a solo singer. Clapton I'm aware was in a group before. I associate him with the Yardbirds and Cream though.

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Post #512237  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 5:26 pm 
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warrior wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Yes very rich - The Moody Blues for instance.

I used to blast the Moody Blues back in college on a huge stereo I had.
My neighbours liked it too. They hurled a brick threw my window just so they could hear it better.
Nice one. I think I wanted to be Justin Hayward way back then - handsome, sensitive and talented. Afraid to say I was not even on the threshold of that dream.

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Post #512238  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 5:45 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Zed wrote:
Blind Faith group had Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker (deceased) and Ric Grech (deceased).


I had no idea prior that Clatpon and Winwood were in the same group. I've only really known Winwood as a solo singer. Clapton I'm aware was in a group before. I associate him with the Yardbirds and Cream though.
AG I highly recommend you dig into Winwood's years in the band Traffic. This is a later version of the band in 1994, but earlier formations from late 60s on were great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doXXcTNUx8o

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Post #512239  Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:05 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
warrior wrote:
I used to blast the Moody Blues back in college on a huge stereo I had.
My neighbours liked it too. They hurled a brick threw my window just so they could hear it better.
Nice one. I think I wanted to be Justin Hayward way back then - handsome, sensitive and talented. Afraid to say I was not even on the threshold of that dream.


Nights in White Satin and Forever Autumn from War of the Worlds must be two of the most haunting, beautiful and powerfully evocative songs ever written.


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Post #512240  Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:00 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:

I had no idea prior that Clatpon and Winwood were in the same group. I've only really known Winwood as a solo singer. Clapton I'm aware was in a group before. I associate him with the Yardbirds and Cream though.
AG I highly recommend you dig into Winwood's years in the band Traffic. This is a later version of the band in 1994, but earlier formations from late 60s on were great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doXXcTNUx8o

That band is fantastic. :53big-emoticons: They can flat out play. The music is of a very high quality. Good song as well but I expected that, given its Winwood, the music itself is good. Will have to hit youtube.

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