Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

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Post #511761  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:20 am 
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Post #511762  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:23 am 
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Rich wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
The Arsenal XI of players who we were 'close to getting' or 'wanted to come' would be world beaters.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... 1587309615
JUAN THAT GOT AWAY Arsenal missed out on beating Chelsea to Juan Mata transfer back in 2011 because of ‘Arsene Wenger’s dithering’ over fee

These lists often get rolled out, usually because Wenger has been saying how we 'nearly' signed X player. I can believe the dithering and penny pinching, but to cut the club some slack there were times when we really did have to watch what we spent and had to be sure that the player was the right one. All the while competing against clubs who could just chuck another £5m at a transfer without blinking AND not worry if they turned out to be a dud because they'd just go and get a different £40m player next year - we never had that luxury of flexibility.

Also, Barca were never letting Messi leave. Mbappe chose to stay at Monaco, Man U Gazumped us for Ronaldo, Čech and Yaya couldn't get work permits, Ibrahimovic turned us down after we asked him for a trial (most footballers at that age wouldn't have had that level of arrogance) Arsenal were often the first on the scene with many of these players but for various reasons couldn't get them over the line.

The ones I'm more frustrated about are probably the ones we haven't heard of, the years when we only signed Čech, or the year we only signed Özil and Flamini on a free. These were two critical summers when the squad was good and just needed 3-4 players to really make it a title winning team, but every lost summer meant more needed to be done the next, the same pattern then repeated and we fell further and further away until Wenger left a massively overpaid, overhyped and unbalanced squad that we're still sorting out.


Just on the subject of Mata - us not getting him was nothing to do with dithering.

He was lined up and ready to sign when in the space of a couple of days he changed his lawyer, his family suddenly got very rich, and he signed for Chelsea. Make your own minds up as to what happened there.


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Post #511763  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:34 am 
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My Arsenal northern XI from the 70s onwards. Just a bit of fun.

David Seaman (Rotherham)

Lee Dixon (Manchester)
Bob McNabb (Huddersfield)
Steve Bould (Stoke on Trent)
Andy Linighan (Hartlepool)

Alan Ball (Farnworth, Lancashire)
Kevin Richardson (Newcastle Upon Tyne)

George Armstrong (Hebburn, Durham)
Graham Rix (Doncaster)

Ray Kennedy (Seaton, Northumberland)
John Radford (Hemsworth, Yorkshire)

Subs: Alan Sunderland (Conisbrough, Yorkshire)
Danny Welbeck (Manchester)
Brian Kidd (Manchester)
Jimmy Rimmer (Southport)

Struggling on the midfield but Armstrong and Rix can track back :happy11:


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Post #511764  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:50 am 
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True enough Rich. I was having a little fun but we were paying for the stadium for several years which left us with the likes of Denilson making way more appearances than he should have. That said, there are a list of very good players that we could have gotten within our budget.
Mata may or may not be one of them.

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Post #511765  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:51 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Do you have a mirror?

Do you have anything betyween your ears :12hello-bye:

That is irrelevant.
Even an earthworm, with no discernible brain or ears, would be able to detect
1) how silly is your argument about the NHS. Read what Darren said. Delegation of authority is utterly irrelevant to the question of where the budget comes from. Not only is it brainless to say otherwise, to do so suggests there aren't even ganglia or nerve cells involved. In fact, a block of wood could do better. Trump would blush before trying that argument.

2) that you are trying on the American Gooner tactic of bursting into tears and crying 'troll' whenever anyone opposes your silly views.. My betting is that if the sun comes up and you and Top Gun are caught outside arguing, it wouldn't be Top Gun who would be turned to stone.

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Post #511766  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:33 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Darren wrote:
With respect Bubblechris. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Johnson refused the science initially. Check his speech from Feb 3 when he was already informed by a senior scientist on Jan 24th to lockdown to prevent a national crisis. He ignored it.

Keep knocking one out for Boris though.


The difference between us is you read what you want to read and believe what you want to believe.

If you looked further into the matter you would find that the scientist, the only one at that time, in question is Neil Ferguson who was the only member of SAGE and NERVTAG that believed a lockdown was necessary on Jan 24th a month or so before the WHO declared a pandemic. The Government's Scientific advisers advised the Goverment at that time to wait and not to lockdown.

They followed the science you appear to follow your noase.

Keep up young man.....................

Firstly, aside from the fact that Johnson waited until 23 March and 300+ deaths to declare the lockdown ... what scientific option was on 24 Jan is not very relevant. China had already implemented the Wuhan lockdown (on 23 Jan, after less than 50 deaths). It rapidly became clear that the Wuhan lockdown did work.

Secondly, the fact that a pandemic was not declared until 12 March does in any way imply that the WTO was not taking it seriously or that that scientific opinion wasn't in favour of a lockdown and other stringent measure before that.

A lockdown/quarantine is appropriate for a virulent outbreak in one locale (as in Wuhan, starting 23 January) regardless of whether it is a pandemic. This has been known since ancient times.

A pandemic is something else. It is an "epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people". You can't declare a pandemic unless you have such a wide incidence.

Actually, WHO had an emergency meeting on 22 January "to assess whether the outbreak constituted a public health emergency of international concern. The independent members from around the world could not reach a consensus based on the evidence available at the time. They asked to be reconvened within 10 days after receiving more information."

The WTO declared it a public health emergence of international concern on 30 January.

And, to repeat, Trump and Johnson waited until late march to act. Not just to implement lockdown, but to get their countries prepared in terms of hospitals, PPE, testing capability.

Three of my family in England have (presumably, because they weren't tested) had the disease. My nephew, who works at a hospital in London had it quite badly. Even though he is a doctor he wasn't tested. Just sent home.

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Post #511767  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Club Statement on wage reduction:

https://www.arsenal.com/news/club-statement


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Post #511768  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:14 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
Do you have anything betyween your ears :12hello-bye:

That is irrelevant.
Even an earthworm, with no discernible brain or ears, would be able to detect
1) how silly is your argument about the NHS. Read what Darren said. Delegation of authority is utterly irrelevant to the question of where the budget comes from. Not only is it brainless to say otherwise, to do so suggests there aren't even ganglia or nerve cells involved. In fact, a block of wood could do better. Trump would blush before trying that argument.

2) that you are trying on the American Gooner tactic of bursting into tears and crying 'troll' whenever anyone opposes your silly views.. My betting is that if the sun comes up and you and Top Gun are caught outside arguing, it wouldn't be Top Gun who would be turned to stone.


Dumb and dumber at it again. Enough with the negativity. There is a time and a place for it.

This is neither.

Believe what you want to believe but don't promote fake news or I will counter it every time.


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Post #511769  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:33 pm 
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Been watching a lot of old matches. Iconic teams, players, I've heard mention on here and other places. Guess what? Liverpool were pretty good in the '70s!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcl0wWR3QSc&t=34s

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Post #511770  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:39 pm 
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What surprised me was the level of skill. I hadn't realized just how good some of these players were. When people trot out the old line "they could play today" it seems over the top but some of these guys really could.

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Post #511771  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:39 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
What surprised me was the level of skill. I hadn't realized just how good some of these players were. When people trot out the old line "they could play today" it seems over the top but some of these guys really could.

I realise you’ll pretend not to see this so won’t reply, but why would it surprise anyone that former players could play today? Players from the 60s, 70s and every other other past decade would be subjected to today’s dietary restrictions, playing styles, training and fitness regimes plus other facets of the modern day rather than those when they played.

Taking that into account, why on earth would anyone think they couldn’t adapt to play today, especially when considering how much more violent the tackling was in their day making it even easier for talented players to perform now.

I suppose if the argument ‘they would not function today’ does apply to anyone, it would be the players who relied on violence. But I certainly believe the large majority could carve a career out in the modern game. The recently deceased Norman Hunter easily had enough about his game to function today. His teammates like Johnny Giles and Billy Bremner had great skill as well as using violence, and their non-teammate Alan Ball was similar. I think less talented guys like Peter Storey and Tommy Smith would have as well. I would even expect Chopper Harris to as well considering his leadership qualities.

By comparison I suspect it would have been much easier for talents like Charlie George, Alan Hudson, Eddie Gray, George Best, Peter Osgood, Liam Brady and countless others to play today.


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Post #511772  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:56 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
What surprised me was the level of skill. I hadn't realized just how good some of these players were. When people trot out the old line "they could play today" it seems over the top but some of these guys really could.

I realise you’ll pretend not to see this so won’t reply, but why would it surprise anyone that former players could play today? Players from the 60s, 70s and every other other past decade would be subjected to today’s dietary restrictions, playing styles, training and fitness regimes plus other facets of the modern day rather than those when they played.

Taking that into account, why on earth wouldn’t anyone think they couldn’t adapt to play today, especially when considering how much more violent the tackling was in their day making it even easier for talented players to perform now.

I suppose if the argument ‘they would not function today’ does apply to anyone, it would be the violent players. But I certainly believe the large majority could carve a career out in the modern game. The recently deceased Norman Hunter easily had enough about his game to function today, as would team mates like Johnny Giles and Billy Bremner (what players they both were in terms of skill as well as violence). I think Peter Storey and Tommy Smith would have as well. I would even expect Chopper Harris to as well considering his leadership qualities.

By comparison I suspect it would have been much easier for talents like Charlie George, Alan Hudson, Eddie Gray, George Best, Peter Osgood and countless others to play today.

Enjoy this Bernard
https://youtu.be/1TW41P5KQGg


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Post #511773  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:12 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Enjoy this Bernard
https://youtu.be/1TW41P5KQGg

Thanks for that. I was a young kid at the time but my dad took me to that away game at Man City when Charlie scored twice. I’m not certain but I think the game was played midweek because it was an FA Cup tie which had been postponed from the previous weekend. Looking at the state of the Maine Road pitch when it was played, if that was an improvement to what it was like at the weekend I’m not surprised it had been postponed.

I still don’t see the logic in thinking that Charlie and countless other guys with talent couldn’t play in today’s game. Of course they could.


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Post #511774  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:25 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Thanks for that. I was a young kid at the time but my dad took me to that away game at Man City when Charlie scored twice. I’m not certain but I think the game was played midweek because it was an FA Cup tie which had been postponed from the previous weekend. Looking at the state of the Maine Road pitch when it was played, if that was an improvement to what it was like at the weekend I’m not surprised it had been postponed.

I still don’t see the logic in thinking that Charlie and countless other guys with talent couldn’t play in today’s game. Of course they could.


Yes of course, completely agree. Charlie and the like would have been top players in any era.
Very nostalgic seeing a proper mudbath at Maine Road - used to play on pitches like that as a youth. Has football really improved with all the money etc? Probably my age but football in the 70s was more exciting and passionate than the sterile fare we often get served up with today.


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Post #511775  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:40 pm 
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Özil has rejected the 12.5 percent reduction

Didn’t you just know it would be him. Disastrous signing


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Post #511776  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:48 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Özil has rejected the 12.5 percent reduction

Didn’t you just know it would be him. Disastrous signing

Wonder who the other 2 are.

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Post #511777  Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:16 pm 
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Niall wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Özil has rejected the 12.5 percent reduction

Didn’t you just know it would be him. Disastrous signing

Wonder who the other 2 are.

I was wondering that.


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Post #511778  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:42 am 
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Kinda cool hearing the small things behind the scenes we were never privy to. RvP improving from what Sol said to him about how he plays. If I were a striker, I'd definitely ask the defenders on my team what aspects of my game gave them an advantage. Seems simple and logical but I wonder how many ask that? a
PS: Robin, you are still a Judas rat b@astard.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... l-21898866

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Post #511779  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:52 am 
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One of the toughest things is leaving at the right time. Ferguson knew he wasn't going to win again his last title. The landscape changed and credit to him, he was smart enough to see it.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/extraordin ... 13320.html
'Extraordinary guy' Wenger should have left after 2017 FA Cup final triumph - Arsenal great Wilson

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Post #511780  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:13 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Decaf wrote:
That is irrelevant.
Even an earthworm, with no discernible brain or ears, would be able to detect
1) how silly is your argument about the NHS. Read what Darren said. Delegation of authority is utterly irrelevant to the question of where the budget comes from. Not only is it brainless to say otherwise, to do so suggests there aren't even ganglia or nerve cells involved. In fact, a block of wood could do better. Trump would blush before trying that argument.

2) that you are trying on the American Gooner tactic of bursting into tears and crying 'troll' whenever anyone opposes your silly views.. My betting is that if the sun comes up and you and Top Gun are caught outside arguing, it wouldn't be Top Gun who would be turned to stone.


Dumb and dumber at it again. Enough with the negativity. There is a time and a place for it.

This is neither.

Believe what you want to believe but don't promote fake news or I will counter it every time.

You haven't countered anything. Simply labelling anything you disagree with as 'fake news' doesn't count.

What do you mean 'negativity'? There may be a time and a place for looking away from the harsher aspects of reality -- childrens' parties, when one is about to go to bed at night and needs to clear ones mind --but I'd suggest that the midst of a pandemic is not the time or place, least of all for the likes of Trump and Johnson.

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Post #511781  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:17 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Kinda cool hearing the small things behind the scenes we were never privy to. RvP improving from what Sol said to him about how he plays. If I were a striker, I'd definitely ask the defenders on my team what aspects of my game gave them an advantage. Seems simple and logical but I wonder how many ask that?

My guess would be 'all'.

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Post #511782  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:26 am 
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It’s hard to imagine just how the transfer situation will play out. Surely we won’t still have insane bidding and salaries will we?

Today it’s being reported that there are ‘leaked’ documents showing Barcelona’s Doomsday scenario of £882m losses and the Nou Camp being closed for 10 months.

Surely the only way that anybody can bid a price up is with sugar daddy injections of the sort that Financial Fair Play was supposed to stop (but didn’t).

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Post #511783  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:57 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
It’s hard to imagine just how the transfer situation will play out. Surely we won’t still have insane bidding and salaries will we?

Today it’s being reported that there are ‘leaked’ documents showing Barcelona’s Doomsday scenario of £882m losses and the Nou Camp being closed for 10 months.

Surely the only way that anybody can bid a price up is with sugar daddy injections of the sort that Financial Fair Play was supposed to stop (but didn’t).


Hi ltg,

Who knows how this will play out, football is a law unto itself. You would think (hope) that the financial implications of the coronavirus would be a massive reality check and that if, and when, things get back to some degree of normality, the landscape will have changed forever.

The problem is how do you undo the financial excesses in football of the last decade or so. Players used to obscene salaries paid for largely by tv money will not want to get paid less, as evidenced by the reluctance of players to take salary cuts.

The transfer window might be quiet for a while but I suspect it won't be too long before stupid fees get paid again as the biggest clubs battle for the best talents.


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Post #511784  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:57 am 
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FFP should be called FFS, its not going to work. Anyway, logically prices should be going down as well as the PL revenue it shares with all the clubs. The players will likely have to live under this new environment, cut back on the lifestyle and go for the bargain brands at Tesco.

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Post #511785  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:06 am 
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socrates wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
It’s hard to imagine just how the transfer situation will play out. Surely we won’t still have insane bidding and salaries will we?

Today it’s being reported that there are ‘leaked’ documents showing Barcelona’s Doomsday scenario of £882m losses and the Nou Camp being closed for 10 months.

Surely the only way that anybody can bid a price up is with sugar daddy injections of the sort that Financial Fair Play was supposed to stop (but didn’t).


Hi ltg,

Who knows how this will play out, football is a law unto itself. You would think (hope) that the financial implications of the coronavirus would be a massive reality check and that if, and when, things get back to some degree of normality, the landscape will have changed forever.

The problem is how do you undo the financial excesses in football of the last decade or so. Players used to obscene salaries paid for largely by tv money will not want to get paid less, as evidenced by the reluctance of players to take salary cuts.

The transfer window might be quiet for a while but I suspect it won't be too long before stupid fees get paid again as the biggest clubs battle for the best talents.

I can imagine a scenario where the lower divisions are ravaged and broke or have no cash. This must have a knock-on effect above. I can’t actually see where Arsenal would get any money from to fund an improvement. The will might be there but unlikely to be the means.

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Post #511786  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:18 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi ltg,

Who knows how this will play out, football is a law unto itself. You would think (hope) that the financial implications of the coronavirus would be a massive reality check and that if, and when, things get back to some degree of normality, the landscape will have changed forever.

The problem is how do you undo the financial excesses in football of the last decade or so. Players used to obscene salaries paid for largely by tv money will not want to get paid less, as evidenced by the reluctance of players to take salary cuts.

The transfer window might be quiet for a while but I suspect it won't be too long before stupid fees get paid again as the biggest clubs battle for the best talents.

I can imagine a scenario where the lower divisions are ravaged and broke or have no cash. This must have a knock-on effect above. I can’t actually see where Arsenal would get any money from to fund an improvement. The will might be there but unlikely to be the means.


I don’t know how many clubs could make a decision to seriously invest in the current climate.

What should be happening is that sponsorship, television rights and players contracts should all be altered temporarily or renegotiated now whilst this is going on. This is what pretty much most services businesses are having to do up and down the country.

The 12.5 percent is just the start of this. Just wait. If you can’t open a pub till Christmas what about opening a football stadium

This however would involve pragmatism from players, execs and business partners of the clubs. Don’t expect to see this happen anytime soon. This is the thing about football, everyone wants their cake and eat it.


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Post #511787  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:34 am 
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Two issues arise about attendance and therefore gate receipts. When will clubs be allowed to open their stadia is one thing. More crucially is how many people would be prepared to take the risk of putting themselves into such a crowd?

Many of Arsenal’s older generation might decide to opt out for the foreseeable.

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Post #511788  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:49 am 
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You know nothing of whether I care for people dying or whether I am doing anything to help. This sort of slander is precisely what bigots do: you have a psychological need to justify to yourself that the object of your hatred 'deserves' all they get, so that you can continue with the illusion that you are a decent human being. If anyone disagrees with any of your views, it must be because they are an evil Lefty with evil motives and probably advanced venereal disease too.

Please carefully peruse post #520170 and let me know which of the the points you contest.

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Post #511789  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:58 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
Two issues arise about attendance and therefore gate receipts. When will clubs be allowed to open their stadia is one thing. More crucially is how many people would be prepared to take the risk of putting themselves into such a crowd?

Many of Arsenal’s older generation might decide to opt out for the foreseeable.

Not a problem for China apparently.

It’s reported that a new stadium is being built for Guangzhou Evergrande with a capacity of 100,000. Hope it’s not near a virus research lab.

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Post #511790  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:04 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
Two issues arise about attendance and therefore gate receipts. When will clubs be allowed to open their stadia is one thing. More crucially is how many people would be prepared to take the risk of putting themselves into such a crowd?

Many of Arsenal’s older generation might decide to opt out for the foreseeable.


I agree, those who are elderly or have underlying health issues (let's face it that's a fairly large percentage of the over 40s) are unlikely to want to risk big gatherings at least until an effective treatment or a vaccine are available.


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Post #511791  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:05 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi ltg,

Who knows how this will play out, football is a law unto itself. You would think (hope) that the financial implications of the coronavirus would be a massive reality check and that if, and when, things get back to some degree of normality, the landscape will have changed forever.

The problem is how do you undo the financial excesses in football of the last decade or so. Players used to obscene salaries paid for largely by tv money will not want to get paid less, as evidenced by the reluctance of players to take salary cuts.


The transfer window might be quiet for a while but I suspect it won't be too long before stupid fees get paid again as the biggest clubs battle for the best talents.

I can imagine a scenario where the lower divisions are ravaged and broke or have no cash. This must have a knock-on effect above. I can’t actually see where Arsenal would get any money from to fund an improvement. The will might be there but unlikely to be the means.


I'm not sure how the lower league clubs survive this as they are heavily reliant on gate receipts to pay wages.


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Post #511792  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:06 am 
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socrates wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Two issues arise about attendance and therefore gate receipts. When will clubs be allowed to open their stadia is one thing. More crucially is how many people would be prepared to take the risk of putting themselves into such a crowd?

Many of Arsenal’s older generation might decide to opt out for the foreseeable.


I agree, those who are elderly or have underlying health issues (let's face it that's a fairly large percentage of the over 40s) are unlikely to want to risk big gatherings at least until an effective treatment or a vaccine are available.

Yes. If the stadium doesn’t get you then the tube/train will.

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Post #511793  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:10 am 
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That's rather harsh, bubble.

Personally I couldn't care less who is in government, my concerns are solely about how well this pandemic is being navigated. I think we were slow out of the blocks both in terms of lock-downs and in garnering supplies of PPE and the cost of that could be the highest death rate in europe.


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Post #511794  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:11 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
socrates wrote:

I agree, those who are elderly or have underlying health issues (let's face it that's a fairly large percentage of the over 40s) are unlikely to want to risk big gatherings at least until an effective treatment or a vaccine are available.

Yes. If the stadium doesn’t get you then the tube/train will.


Absolutely, imagine travelling on the tube or train on a matchday.


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Post #511795  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:13 am 
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socrates wrote:
I'm not sure how the lower league clubs survive this as they are heavily reliant on gate receipts to pay wages.

Me neither.

I see that the EFL are keen to finish the Championship but not Div One and Two because the lower leagues would have virtually no TV income and zero gate receipts.

In their typical half arsed way they are suggesting that the Championship be played out to a conclusion and that Divs One and Two be decided on a points per game basis. Which is all well and fine except that many of the non league divisions have been simply wrapped up as though they never happened (devastating to those clubs in a Liverpool type situation. In fact one club was already mathematically certain of being promoted having won every game).

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Post #511796  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:43 am 
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Decaf your answers are in the link posted by Niall


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Post #511797  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:50 am 
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If these posts are left on the site I promise to never argue them again.

Enough said by me. Let's talk football or Brexit...............


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Post #511798  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:01 am 
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I have removed two lengthy posts regarding the British Governments rebuttal of the recent articles written about their response to CoronaVirus over the weekend.

For those interested in that they can be read here: It looks like a direct lift from this site.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ponse.html.

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Post #511799  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:03 am 
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Cheers Niall sorry for the aggro. I got this from another site and thank you for posting link to same.


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Post #511800  Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:05 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Enough said by me. Let's talk football or Brexit...............

That would be good.



Except for the Brexit bit

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