Fixtures Saturday July 27 - Manchester United - Sofi Stadium - Friendly Match

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Post #389721  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:56 pm 
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Ash wrote:
DHD wrote:
Hail Mary


Pass among the centre backs you mean? There was 30 seconds left no need to rush


meant the last corner


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Post #389722  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:57 pm 
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Two very evenly matched teams, the biggest thing for us is that Bayern for long periods let us have the majority of the ball but we struggled to look really threatening in the final 1/3rd.
It’s no disgrace to decide to play a tight tie, keep things tight and look for that one moment to win the tie. Over the two legs there is no reason to think we didn’t have those moments, but over the two legs we made a very small handful of mistakes and Bayern didn’t make any. They were just more clinical in both boxes


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Post #389723  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:58 pm 
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*%^@*** April.... although getting knocked out by Man City as they go on to win the league would be 1999 proportions of disappointment.


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Post #389724  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:59 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Not sure why Martinelli keeps getting taken off instead of Saka.

Bukayo hasn’t been on the top of his game for a few weeks now, and hasn’t got Martinelli’s pace.

True, although Martinelli was poor again too.

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Post #389725  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:59 pm 
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Also Saka needs a rest.


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Post #389726  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:00 pm 
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We weren't good enough tonight

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Post #389727  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:05 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
The unwillingness to use Emile Smith Rowe and Partey is a great mystery. What is there to lose? We're completely flat in midfield and up front.

Honestly. Just never a game for smith Rowe which highlights the challenges we have.


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Post #389728  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:06 pm 
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Despite Bayern having a poor season by their standards, you can look man for man in the attacking positions and see players who have consistently done it at this level.
Kane v Havertz/Jesus
Sane/Gnabry v Saka/Martinelli
Gorezka v Rice
Musiela v Ødegaard - Musiela is just as creative but has a dribbling and drive in his play to change gear

Musiela is 21, but the other 4 are 28,28,29,30
Our front 5 are 22, 22, 24, 25, 25 - we’re on average 6 years behind on CL experience on these guys.

Tight game, biggest frustrations were not capitalising on the electric start in the first leg, giving up mistakes for all 3 of their goals and really struggling to create any chance of note in the last 25 minutes after we were behind


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Post #389729  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:07 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Not sure why Martinelli keeps getting taken off instead of Saka.

Bukayo hasn’t been on the top of his game for a few weeks now, and hasn’t got Martinelli’s pace.

They doubled up on Saka because they know he’s our most dangerous player. They also tried hard to cut off the passing routes to him.

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Post #389730  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:09 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Decaf wrote:
The unwillingness to use Emile Smith Rowe and Partey is a great mystery. What is there to lose? We're completely flat in midfield and up front.

Honestly. Just never a game for smith Rowe which highlights the challenges we have.

Agreed, our fringe players are not really the at the level to bring on and change the flow of the game.
I’ll go back to it again but we still lack a bit of pace, it’s not even necessarily raw running pace, it’s a sharpness and zip on the ball. In that attacking mid space it’s the quality that Musiela brought, or Foden’s half turn and drive.


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Post #389731  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:10 pm 
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Disappointing really.

A decent effort but no more. Not a great effort or an heroic effort just an OK performance which lacked urgency and real game winning quality in the final third.

It's sad to say but lets be realistic, a Saka-Havertz-Martinelli forward line is not winning the CL. Havertz doesn't have enough real game-changing quality as a 9 and Martinelli is bang out of form.

Bayern's game intelligence and in-game management seem so much better than ours. Take the last ten minutes where we had free kicks and corners but wasted all of them through poor decisions and execution.

Even the last free kick we tried to take early, was that the right decision given the position of the free kick?

I think we have some big decisions to make in the summer. A left back, an upgrade on Martinelli and perhaps most importantly a top quality no.9. Another quality CB and a CM as well but can we do all that in one summer?


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Post #389732  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:11 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Despite Bayern having a poor season by their standards, you can look man for man in the attacking positions and see players who have consistently done it at this level.
Kane v Havertz/Jesus
Sane/Gnabry v Saka/Martinelli
Gorezka v Rice
Musiela v Ødegaard - Musiela is just as creative but has a dribbling and drive in his play to change gear

Musiela is 21, but the other 4 are 28,28,29,30
Our front 5 are 22, 22, 24, 25, 25 - we’re on average 6 years behind on CL experience on these guys.

Tight game, biggest frustrations were not capitalising on the electric start in the first leg, giving up mistakes for all 3 of their goals and really struggling to create any chance of note in the last 25 minutes after we were behind

The goals we conceded at home were very frustrating as they were bad mistakes. Tonight was different. That was a clever run and finish by Kimmich. I wish Raya could command his box though.

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Post #389733  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:12 pm 
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dec wrote:
john1 wrote:
Not sure why Martinelli keeps getting taken off instead of Saka.

Bukayo hasn’t been on the top of his game for a few weeks now, and hasn’t got Martinelli’s pace.

They doubled up on Saka because they know he’s our most dangerous player. They also tried hard to cut off the passing routes to him.

And teams will keep doing it, so for me we need to then add dribbling and drive through the centre of the pitch. If they double up wide there is naturally a bit more space centrally. Who have we got who receives the square pass and just runs forward, head up to commit an opponent to pull them out of shape? We don’t have that central profile of player and I’d be looking for that left 8 in the summer. He may not be the answer but Eze at Palace is the kind of player I like


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Post #389734  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:16 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
They doubled up on Saka because they know he’s our most dangerous player. They also tried hard to cut off the passing routes to him.

And teams will keep doing it, so for me we need to then add dribbling and drive through the centre of the pitch. If they double up wide there is naturally a bit more space centrally. Who have we got who receives the square pass and just runs forward, head up to commit an opponent to pull them out of shape? We don’t have that central profile of player and I’d be looking for that left 8 in the summer. He may not be the answer but Eze at Palace is the kind of player I like


No doubt teams realise Saka is the danger man. We need more danger men.

Not sure why Ødegaard was playing so high today, it left him bereft of possession and unable to influence the game.


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Post #389735  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:17 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
Despite Bayern having a poor season by their standards, you can look man for man in the attacking positions and see players who have consistently done it at this level.
Kane v Havertz/Jesus
Sane/Gnabry v Saka/Martinelli
Gorezka v Rice
Musiela v Ødegaard - Musiela is just as creative but has a dribbling and drive in his play to change gear

Musiela is 21, but the other 4 are 28,28,29,30
Our front 5 are 22, 22, 24, 25, 25 - we’re on average 6 years behind on CL experience on these guys.

Tight game, biggest frustrations were not capitalising on the electric start in the first leg, giving up mistakes for all 3 of their goals and really struggling to create any chance of note in the last 25 minutes after we were behind

The goals we conceded at home were very frustrating as they were bad mistakes. Tonight was different. That was a clever run and finish by Kimmich. I wish Raya could command his box though.


Martinelli switched off though. One moment of poor concentration and it costs you at this level.


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Post #389736  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:18 pm 
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The worry now is we look a bit cooked physically for the run in, and I really can’t see many options to freshen things up and keep the quality.


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Post #389737  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:23 pm 
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Rich wrote:
The worry now is we look a bit cooked physically for the run in, and I really can’t see many options to freshen things up and keep the quality.


The seasons done Rich. We seemingly couldn't get Partey back to any kind of decent level in time to impact our season and unfortunately Timber was always a long shot.


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Post #389738  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:27 pm 
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We’re not the elite level in Europe yet, that’s clear. You could look at lots of areas in our team we should improve, but lots of very good sides could say that as well.
Striker is obvious and adding some explosive pace out wide, but I also feel in these kind of games there is an upgrade at full back that could benefit us. We don’t really know what Timber can do but he seems like one of those hybrid CB/FB who is comfortable on the ball. What I’d like is to have that kind of full back who you think must have been a winger in their youth. Currently we attack with a front 6 max really. Our full backs get forward but not really with much goal or assist threat and creativity.

Note Bayern’s goal today was a guy who usually plays left back floating a cross for the guy playing right back.


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Post #389739  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:30 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
The worry now is we look a bit cooked physically for the run in, and I really can’t see many options to freshen things up and keep the quality.


The seasons done Rich. We seemingly couldn't get Partey back to any kind of decent level in time to impact our season and unfortunately Timber was always a long shot.

Let’s not give up yet. Of course the league is a long shot but we don’t play anyone anywhere near as good as Bayern (or Villa!) in the run in.

It just feels like we can’t go full tilt for 90 minutes right now. Get ahead in games and trust us to see the games out with a solid defence. We need to manage our legs within games


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Post #389740  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:40 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
The worry now is we look a bit cooked physically for the run in, and I really can’t see many options to freshen things up and keep the quality.


The seasons done Rich. We seemingly couldn't get Partey back to any kind of decent level in time to impact our season and unfortunately Timber was always a long shot.

Players need game time. You can’t expect them to sit on the bench for weeks and then waltz into the team seamlessly. Partey is clearly good enough. Emile Smith Rowe is obviously not at Ødegaard’s level but he’s a good player. I look at Conor Bradley playing all those games for Liverpool. 20 year old kid who had to come in and cover for TAA. He is raw and made mistakes but overall was very good. Barca have a 17 year old at centre back at the moment and a 16 year old winger. That’s extreme but you need to give players a run and when you do, then rotation becomes much easier.

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Post #389741  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:42 pm 
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Critics will point to the money we’ve spent and that we’ve got nothing to show for it. That misses a number of points
1) compared to the real big spenders, yes, we haven’t been that far behind in transfer spend - but we’re giving away £75-100m in wages each yea that those clubs spend
2) we’ve built a very young team, none of whom are at their peak, grow this team together and gain the experience. First CL tied for 6 odd years, it took Pep 5 years to win it with City
3) we started from an incredibly low base. Spending £600m is a lot but when you’ve got to change up an entire squad of 22 players that £600m suddenly doesn’t go very far


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Post #389742  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:45 pm 
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.
I might be quite wrong but I'd question Raya's positioning ,
to cover the first cross that led to the goal he took up a postion directly out from his near post , a little more central he wouldn't have had to retreat at such a rapid rate of knots to try cut off the second cross .

By coming back so fast he was committed to saving a goal only if it was directed towards his left hand post .

Where it was headed he had no chance because his momentum was all going the other way .


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Post #389743  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:47 pm 
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Bernardo Silva with a terrible penalty in the shootout for City, just went to place it right in to the centre of the goal expecting the gk to dive and the gk just stood there and caught the ball in front of his face - the gk could have probably chested down that penalty.

City lose on penalties to Real Madrid


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Post #389744  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:51 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
.
I might be quite wrong but I'd question Raya's positioning ,
to cover the first cross that led to the goal he took up a postion directly out from his near post , a little more central he wouldn't have had to retreat at such a rapid rate of knots to try cut off the second cross .

By coming back so fast he was committed to saving a goal only if it was directed towards his left hand post .

Where it was headed he had no chance because his momentum was all going the other way .

I think that’s overly harsh. Whenever a cross comes in beyond the centre of the goal every gk will be moving from the near post back towards the centre of the goal which is why strikers are always told you put your header back where it came because gk have to be on the move to cover the centre of the goal.
Raya would be a fair way down the blame list for that goal for me. I’d firstly point at statue-esque defenders who allowed an unchallenged header by a player on the run, you could also look at White allowing a very left footed player to move the ball on to his left to make the cross, white almost showed him the line on to his strong foot


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Post #389745  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:56 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Bernardo Silva with a terrible penalty in the shootout for City, just went to place it right in to the centre of the goal expecting the gk to dive and the gk just stood there and caught the ball in front of his face - the gk could have probably chested down that penalty.

City lose on penalties to Real Madrid

It was hilarious. Feck off, Pep!

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Post #389746  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:59 pm 
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dec wrote:
socrates wrote:

The seasons done Rich. We seemingly couldn't get Partey back to any kind of decent level in time to impact our season and unfortunately Timber was always a long shot.

Players need game time. You can’t expect them to sit on the bench for weeks and then waltz into the team seamlessly. Partey is clearly good enough. Emile Smith Rowe is obviously not at Ødegaard’s level but he’s a good player. I look at Conor Bradley playing all those games for Liverpool. 20 year old kid who had to come in and cover for TAA. He is raw and made mistakes but overall was very good. Barca have a 17 year old at centre back at the moment and a 16 year old winger. That’s extreme but you need to give players a run and when you do, then rotation becomes much easier.

Would Conor Bradley have had much game time if Trent had been fit all season. I agree he’s done well but him playing was more because Klopp had to through necessity rather than chose to really integrate him as a genuine rotation option. Sometimes though you find out what players are made of by putting them in. The fear I have is we sort of already know what a lot of these players are made of.
I think we have to realise we’ve went from 8th to 5th to title challengers in 3 seasons and have cemented ourselves as title challengers again this season. There will be players in the squad that finished 8th and 5th where that was their limit so we need continual churn of players to bring in ones that not only sustain us as title challengers but effectively raise the floor of the squad so when we’re rotating or bringing on subs we’re bringing in title challenging players rather than players good enough for a 5th placed team.


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Post #389747  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:03 pm 
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Rich wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
.
I might be quite wrong but I'd question Raya's positioning ,
to cover the first cross that led to the goal he took up a postion directly out from his near post , a little more central he wouldn't have had to retreat at such a rapid rate of knots to try cut off the second cross .

By coming back so fast he was committed to saving a goal only if it was directed towards his left hand post .

Where it was headed he had no chance because his momentum was all going the other way .

I think that’s overly harsh. Whenever a cross comes in beyond the centre of the goal every gk will be moving from the near post back towards the centre of the goal which is why strikers are always told you put your header back where it came because gk have to be on the move to cover the centre of the goal.
Raya would be a fair way down the blame list for that goal for me. I’d firstly point at statue-esque defenders who allowed an unchallenged header by a player on the run, you could also look at White allowing a very left footed player to move the ball on to his left to make the cross, white almost showed him the line on to his strong foot

It’s definitely harsh because the header was a bullet, but he was weak enough on Sane’s cross. He frequently goes to ground early to the extent that he looks small in the goal. I know he’s good with his feet, but I honestly don’t think he’s that great a keeper.

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Post #389748  Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:13 pm 
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Final thought tonight and it’s been said before but in these tight games, as much as we’re a very well coached team, we lack that individual quality to grab a game and win it.
I’d go as far as to say can anyone recall any game this season where we’ve not necessarily played well, or it’s been a tight game and an individual has stepped up and scored something from nothing - not a tap in or a high percentage chance - just a top quality individual goal? I can’t think of one, we’re a team that relies on ‘team’ goals.

Part of that is we couldn’t buy those star attacking players who do that, we weren’t at that level to do that. We also had 2 very useful pieces in the squad (Saka and Martinelli) which allowed Arteta to focus signings in the back 6 positions rather than attackers.


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Post #389749  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:32 am 
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Rich wrote:
Despite Bayern having a poor season by their standards, you can look man for man in the attacking positions and see players who have consistently done it at this level.
Kane v Havertz/Jesus
Sane/Gnabry v Saka/Martinelli
Gorezka v Rice
Musiela v Ødegaard - Musiela is just as creative but has a dribbling and drive in his play to change gear

Musiela is 21, but the other 4 are 28,28,29,30
Our front 5 are 22, 22, 24, 25, 25 - we’re on average 6 years behind on CL experience on these guys.

Tight game, biggest frustrations were not capitalising on the electric start in the first leg, giving up mistakes for all 3 of their goals and really struggling to create any chance of note in the last 25 minutes after we were behind


Musiela is a very good player. I think he is as good as Salah, if not better. He will definitely develop into a much better player soon.

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Post #389750  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:20 am 
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dec wrote:
It’s definitely harsh because the header was a bullet, but he was weak enough on Sane’s cross. He frequently goes to ground early to the extent that he looks small in the goal. I know he’s good with his feet, but I honestly don’t think he’s that great a keeper.

I don't you two young hill billies are getting what I'm saying . A bullet header has nothing to do with it because if he'd have been in the right spot it would have a been a regulation save .
When first cross went over his head why did he take up such an extreme position ? The bloke fielded the ball near the touchline so there is no chance of him getting beaten at the near post .

If he had been more central he would have just had to turn to try and anticipate where Kimmich's header was going ;
but because he had to reverse so rapidly to get central he left himself wide open to what Rich points out is to put the header in the direction the goalie was coming from .

I agree with you I don't think he is a great goalkeeper ; when he was standing opposite Martinez in the tunnel the other day I thought Martinez may be a bit of a cockhead at times but I'd be gloriously happy if we still had him .

Martinez reminds me of Peter Shilton ; much more presence .


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Post #389751  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:32 am 
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The worry is how long will this malaise last? Will end here or will we be the same at Wolves? I'll tell you what? I'm not as confident of even the home game against Chelsea much less the NLD away. Not saying we'll lose per se but right now a draw is same as a loss.

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Post #389752  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:15 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Honestly. Just never a game for smith Rowe which highlights the challenges we have.

Agreed, our fringe players are not really the at the level to bring on and change the flow of the game.
.

I do take your point. But when you are a goal down with 20 to go and the opposition is completely on top, winning all the second balls, etc. you need to gamble with fresh legs. Changing the front line only and moving the tiring Havertz back into MF (not to mention throwing on Eddie in the 86 minutes--a move that is surely more suited to time-wasting when you are a goal up) was not going to change the flow of the game either.

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Post #389753  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:42 am 
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Rich wrote:
Critics will point to the money we’ve spent and that we’ve got nothing to show for it. That misses a number of points
1) compared to the real big spenders, yes, we haven’t been that far behind in transfer spend - but we’re giving away £75-100m in wages each yea that those clubs spend
2) we’ve built a very young team, none of whom are at their peak, grow this team together and gain the experience. First CL tied for 6 odd years, it took Pep 5 years to win it with City
3) we started from an incredibly low base. Spending £600m is a lot but when you’ve got to change up an entire squad of 22 players that £600m suddenly doesn’t go very far

Can I just raise one issue about your second point. How long do you think we have to win something substantial, before some of the young players want a move or are tapped up big time. For instance Saliba is being told at international level that he needs to be at a club where he is under pressure for his spot. Martenelli could be a target from Spain and Saka will probably remain loyal but if we keep overplaying him he might see sense in a move.

The other big challenge is Partey and Jorghino. Jorghino wants a move and wont probably resign with the club(from some media reports) and Partey probably has to go. Ødegaard needs help (I think he injured at the moment), so basically we need not only a midfield but decent back-up for the midfield. We have had a couple of years without major injuries to the critical players like CB's (Saliba for a little time last year) and Saka and Martenelli: but your luck doesn't hold forever when you play them without rest.

While people were overjoyed for City to be eliminated from Europe, its probably exactly what we didn't want. We needed City to have other issues and be distracted from the EPL. Still anything is possible.

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Post #389754  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:53 am 
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Rich wrote:
We’re not the elite level in Europe yet, that’s clear. You could look at lots of areas in our team we should improve, but lots of very good sides could say that as well.
Striker is obvious and adding some explosive pace out wide, but I also feel in these kind of games there is an upgrade at full back that could benefit us. We don’t really know what Timber can do but he seems like one of those hybrid CB/FB who is comfortable on the ball. What I’d like is to have that kind of full back who you think must have been a winger in their youth. Currently we attack with a front 6 max really. Our full backs get forward but not really with much goal or assist threat and creativity.

Note Bayern’s goal today was a guy who usually plays left back floating a cross for the guy playing right back.


This is our first foray into the CL for a while. Quarter final is a decent level back in. As good as the '90s Man Utd and '00s Chelsea and '10s City teams were, how long did it take to even get to the Semis? And Chelsea had a manager who won it before. PSG has spent massively and aren't close to winning it.

It takes not only a few years for your players to get adjusted, it also takes a big enough squad. The step up from Europa league to CL is massive. You can get away with playing a few bench players in some of the Europa league games. CL level, maybe in a group stage if you have the group sewed up. In the knockout stage? No, unless you put the tie to bed and you're playing home. Even a 2-0 first leg win isn't safe as we all know.

Finally, I don't think Arteta has quite figured out how to manage CL and league games yet. That takes some experience. He's still learning I think.

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Post #389755  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:15 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Can I just raise one issue about your second point. How long do you think we have to win something substantial, before some of the young players want a move or are tapped up big time. For instance Saliba is being told at international level that he needs to be at a club where he is under pressure for his spot. Martenelli could be a target from Spain and Saka will probably remain loyal but if we keep overplaying him he might see sense in a move.


That's a worry for me too. We've seen it before of course.

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Last edited by warrior on Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #389756  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:14 pm 
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dec wrote:
john1 wrote:
Not sure why Martinelli keeps getting taken off instead of Saka.

Bukayo hasn’t been on the top of his game for a few weeks now, and hasn’t got Martinelli’s pace.

They doubled up on Saka because they know he’s our most dangerous player. They also tried hard to cut off the passing routes to him.


I recall maki g the same tactical observation on here but at the time in the PL we were scoring from all over the place so it wasn’t quite so stark. In the match it became very obvious that Saka is the one that is the most dangerous in a game like this. Martinelli is not fit, Ødegaard barely so. I didn’t expect much but at this level it’s above the PL. sad but indifferent about losing because I don’t think there is enough legs in this current team to have gone further.

Need more squad.


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Post #389757  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:58 pm 
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danny wrote:
Also Saka needs a rest.

...and Ødegaard. But we can't really afford to rest him now. Saka can be temporarily replaced (Jesus, even Trossard) but not Ødegaard.

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Post #389758  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:20 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Can I just raise one issue about your second point. How long do you think we have to win something substantial, before some of the young players want a move or are tapped up big time. For instance Saliba is being told at international level that he needs to be at a club where he is under pressure for his spot. Martenelli could be a target from Spain and Saka will probably remain loyal but if we keep overplaying him he might see sense in a move.


That's a worry for me too. We've seen it before of course.

Agreed it’s a concern. The next milestone would be summer 2025, at the end of next season Saka, Saliba and Martinelli will all have 2 years left on their deal, not drastic but it’s the time you’d start talking about a new deal. We also must ensure that if those kind of players do want to leave and there is nothing we can do to persuade them to stay that we sell at the top price at the right time, it will absolutely hurt but getting a huge fee and reinvesting with a careful thought through plan means the club can absolutely stay at the top.

Saka I’d hope has a greater sense of loyalty to the club that he could be persuaded to stay for a long time, but Saliba for example - it would almost be good for us in a way if he is the likes of Madrid or PSG making bids for him as it’s shows he’ll be playing at his top level for us. If we lose them hopefully it’s only because they’ve won stuff with us and want a new challenge.


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Post #389759  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:13 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
The worry now is we look a bit cooked physically for the run in, and I really can’t see many options to freshen things up and keep the quality.


The seasons done Rich. We seemingly couldn't get Partey back to any kind of decent level in time to impact our season and unfortunately Timber was always a long shot.

Depends the effect the penalty shot out has on City and Liverpools result tonight.

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Post #389760  Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:10 pm 
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When Klopp leaves Liverpool at the end of the season he’ll be rightly lauded for what he’s bought to the league. His high tempo attacking football was devastating at its best. Him and his back room had a period where they barely missed in the transfer market as well and he bought Liverpool from a bit of a mess to the best team in England and Europe……BUT….despite all that brilliance he still only won the two biggest trophies once each in 9 years, that’s not to disparage those wins it’s more to show the levels you have to reach to beat City, Madrid etc currently. Could Klopp have done much more with what he had? Possibly not, and it still only yielded 2 major trophies


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