OMG the excuses just make me laugh. The number of goals we have conceded are misleading. , we have been running on empty - that's because our manager failed to manage our squad rotation, Tierney and Partey injuries unexpected - Tierney injury prone from the moment he played for Celtic and he has ruined the run in for the last 2 seasons. It also fails to recognise he was a 5/10 player for most of the season although some people on here fawn over him. 13 defeats - as bad as any season for the club in the EPL. You can blame inexperienced players, but they didn't move Xhaka to LB against Brighton and wreck the midfield for that game. They didn't fail to sort out Aubameyang and gift a valuable asset to Barca. Its about time a few people manned up and recognised that our inexperienced manager is partly to blame.

We might still get fourth but its not just the players who need to improve significantly. Whether we are in Europa or CL we need to improve across the club.

This is not Russia , we can examine the whole club and point out deficiencies and Arteta is not untouchable despite what one particular poster on here thinks.

You are absolutely clueless. Tierney a 5 out of ten player my arse. The moment he was taken out the 11 we went off the rails.

Aubameyang had to go, the team looked more a balanced side without him

Nobody ever said the manager was unquestionable and he has made mistakes but they are relatively minor. The truth is we are a well coached and motivated team and anyone attending the emirates regularly knows this because the rapport and energy between the team and fans is excellent. The fans sing the managers name every game.

It’s not excuses it’s analysing the situation but it’s an irrelevance on you because your an arse and all you have is your agenda. Nothing else. Nothing insightful just agenda.

Long term injuries to both your first choice full backs and your key midfield player would badly damage almost any team.

Tierney's average match rating for the season was 6.48.

Of course Arteta 'made mistakes' and the club made gambles that didn't pay off.

But we also made great decisions and gambles that did pay off. Like most of our signings.

PS, 'this is not Russia' gets you a reasonable assurance of not being liquidated or sent to a gulag for expressing dissent. It doesn't protect you from robust rebuttals of your excessively negative and factually dubious arguments.

I couldn't agree more, Rich. The 'other team wanted it more' is nonsense 99% of the time. It is one of the most irritating cliches in sport.

100%

It’s not a sport that involves someone punching another person in the head over 12 rounds. Aggression is part of it but not everything.

Some people would be well served to watch a few games in the conference to understand the sport better. The application is there but what’s missing and you don’t see is first touch and control. As you progress through the leagues this gets better till ultimately you reach Liverpool and city’s level where technique is paramount and they can whip the ball around with inch perfect precision and first touch.

Neville made some comment that spurs had destroyed Arsenal mentally on Thursday. You what ? Because they got given a weak penalty and a player play acted.

Oh and last summer the club signed 5 players under 23 then offloaded pretty much all it’s overpaid “ stars” over the age of 30 before giving the manager a new contract regardless of league position.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say maybe just maybe they are taking a long term view and that they aren’t fussed about Neville and Carraghers silly comments, the average ratings Kieran Tierney is getting in the sun newspaper or what some dinlow on the internet thinks.

The team looked mentally and physically tired to me. Its probably a combination of having a small squad that lacks a bit of quality. There's a reason why Elneny, Holding, Nketiah, Cédric, Tavares etc are back up players. They can step in and do a job in the short term but eventually the drop off in quality will manifest itself, especially when they are making up 40% of the team. Gunnerblog made an interesting point, that we've just lost to Sperz and Newcastle, two teams who have improved becuase of their recruitment in January, wheras we deliberately weakened our squad. I cant say how much tactics exacerbated the limp performance or if the pressure got to the players, but it was odd how we didn't show up in what was the biggest game of the season, and worrying that Arteta couldnt affect it at all. The way he was watching passively from the side, it was almost as if he knew the team werent up for it and there was nothing he could do.

It’s just a narrative, and like all narratives spouted by pundits it ignores all the facts that speak against it. Like how the team got back up on their feet after losing three in a row to midtable sides and won four games on the trot, including Man Utd, Chelsea and West Ham. That’s certainly not the sign of bottlers in my book.

The season is too long to just put everything down to one or two factors, there are a lot of things at play; we have an incredibly young team. We have lots of new players (in our best starting eleven, three players were signed in the summer; four if you count Ødegaard). We had a terrible start to the season with many players out and really struggled to find our identity early on. We have a very thin squad, and got the wrong injuries at the wrong time.

Now, for some of these things I think it’s fair to point out the club could’ve done better (the squad depth, our poor start), and some are just consequences of our long term strategy (the average age of the squad). But to me, more important than assigning blame, is to look at these factors in terms of what we can do about them.

The squad being young and inexperienced is a problem that solves itself by players playing, developing and getting that experience. I think it’s unquestionable that Saka, Martinelli, Ødegaard and Smith-Rowe are better players now than they were when the season started. Our starting eleven having many new players is another issue that fixes itself, simply by players training and playing together. Starting the season in such a bad way can be prevented by making sure we’re diligent in the summer and get our signings in early so the squad has time to gel before the season starts. Squad depth is obviously solved by making the right signings.

So the way I see it, there are some obvious flaws with the team. But for the most part, they are flaws where there is a pretty clear way forward in terms of how to rectify them. I think everybody at the club, from the manager and his staff to the players, have learned a lot this season.

This is pretty much nails it.

It was interesting.

The shouting and screaming from the sidelines wasn’t there. The instructions had stopped. There was no more bullets left in the gun. Contrary to what people are saying there was no obvious play that he missed.

The post match interview was very somber and logical. We weren’t good enough that’s it.

Edit actually I thought he should have defended the team and more crucially himself better after the game. The right comment was something like “Look we tried our best but came up short, we’ll go away and rectify this”
Pure self flagellation wasn’t really necessary but you can see he was a bit tortured

I agree. I would add that "being young and inexperienced is a problem that solves itself" applies to Arteta too. In my view, he has the necessary passion, vision, attention to detail, and leadership ability and will end up as a world class manager. I've also reconciled myself to the view that getting into the Europa might actually be a blessing in disguise.

There is no guarantee that we will be successful, and that it won't end in tears, not least because of how good the competition is in the EPL. Look at Spurs under Poch. But I think we are giving ourselves a fighting chance.

We need Delia to cook up some pre match lasagne for the weekend

I think many things can be true here. We've had a decent season overall with some obvious flaws. We must learn the ability to be able to turn some defeat into draws. Those odd points here and there make a difference. We know where we need to improve but we also have some concerns about whether we can get the best out of what we have. I have faith in Arteta, I've generally liked what I've seen, but there are also some reservations. Should we run out of legs again next year, or should one defeat turn into a run of defeats as we've seen over the last couple of seasons, then I think it's right to question the manager. No need for hysterics or any hand wringing though.

I'm looking forward to the summer. I think we're going to do some interesting business again.

Still hurts but I am happy with the Europa.
Of course i wanted Champions league and was absolutely gutted we have handed the spot over to that vile club but right now Europa is our level and we CAN win that competition. We don't have a hope in hell of winning the champions league with the quality of teams that will be in it next year but of course the finances , the prestige and the type of player we could have attracted would have been greater.
I know this may sound ridiculous/old fashioned/niave but i don't want a player joining us purely because we are in the champions league.
I want them to join us because we are ARSENAL FOOTBALL CLUB and that still means something.
Do we want this type of mercenary player who would only pick us based on which european competition we were in??
If rumours are true and Tielemens and others only will join us if we are in the champions league then *%^@ them.
There are plenty of excellent players out there who still see us as a step up.
Of course money plays a part but that's why i respect Thomas Partey.
Of course he boosted his wages but he could have turned down the move and stayed at Atletico Madrid with champions league football guaranteed but Arsenal still meant something enough for him to come.
That's the type of player i want us to pursue and there are many out there.
Lets see how many players turn utd down because they are in the champions league but there will be many queuing up to join because of the massive name they still are.
We are building up organically and we could have pushed the project a few years ahead but not to be.
It is up to Edu and Arteta to find these players and Arteta has been quoted as saying there are many players out there who want to join us.
Not every elite player has to cost the earth. Some canny deals to be made so lets find them.
Id love Ruben Neves. Think he would be superb in our midfield.
Jesus , David , Dembele of Lyon , Jovic , Richarlison , Toney , Shtick are all attainable strikers who would improve us.

Yes, that is right. Arteta is not faultless, but given where we were last August a top five finish is surely not a disaster? Every club above us have better squads and at least one world-class player - so fifth is OK. More will need to be done to get back to regular ECL qualification and Arteta and the wider management will be key in that. We can't expect the club to go toe-to-toe in the transfer market with the Big Boys, so some other way has to be found - building a team. As Van Gaal once remarked, we don't need the eleven best, we need the best eleven. It feels like we are at least heading in the right direction.

Add Bissouma and Curecella of Brighton to that list us well.
Curecella is an excellent full back. We should be sniffing around him while Bissouma would shine in our midfield too.
Only problem Brighton notoriously want big money for their players.

Must admit I’m struggling to see how getting into the Europa instead of the Champions League can be a blessing in disguise. It’s going to cost the club quite a few tens of millions in income. That means if we are going to buy new players, it’ll presumably mean Stan doping (or investing if you prefer that term for the same thing) the club further. But even if he does (which isn’t certain), importantly it could well make Arsenal a less attractive option for some top players. Hence the new signings could feasibly be at a lower level.

I fully accept that while anyone can win a cup it would practically take a miracle for Arsenal to win the Champions League next season. We therefore surely have a more realistic chance of winning the Europa. But had we qualified for the Champions League, coming third in the group stage would get us into the Europa anyway.

So we not only would have retained a realistic chance of winning the Europa, the realistic chance may have been enhanced had we attracted better players from being in the Champions League at the beginning on next season. Indeed, perhaps with the additional numerous tens of millions from being in it, if Stan isn’t so keen on dipping his hand in his own pocket again.

Sorry, it may be comforting to pretend we’re better off being in the Europa at the beginning of next season. However, in my view it’s kidding oneself or living in cloud cuckoo land.

Another thought on Arteta - he is the least experienced of all the managers of the clubs who have finished above us and who are our nearest rivals in the table. At times he acts with such assurance that it easy to forget that Arsenal is his first proper managerial job. If his tenure so far had been calamitous, then yes by all means query his future. But by any realistic and objective measure it hasn't been. For a young manager he is not doing badly at all.

Agree entirely. Liverpool won the CL under Benitez when they were not challenging for the title. I would much rather be in the CL. More excitement, we'd get better players and while I wouldn't bet the house on it if our team had better players we'd have a chance of winning it. I also believe not being in it is not the impediment to signing better quality players people think it is. Aubamayang joined us when he was a much sought after player.

Read a good point today about 'bottling it'. The same people saying we bottled it are saying we're a poor team with a poor manager, poor players and poor signings. To be considered to have bottled it you have to have been considered to have been good enough in the first place. Cognitive dissonance is the phrase to neatly describe this.

Of course this is correct. He finished above Rangnick who is 63 and has been involved in professional football since the mid 70s!

How bad is his inexperience hurting us!

So would I to be honest. I find the Europa a bit dull and the CL has been won by unlikely teams from time to time.

But, addressing Bernard's point: the silver lining is that the odds of us winning the Europa must be much lower if we qualified for the CL. We would be fairly likely to get into the knockout stages and then get hammered by Bayern or Barcelona as is our wont.

People tend to be all in or out. Dispassionate and rational analysis based on facts is not really part of the fan and pundit culture that dominates football.

This is true. The media influence is huge and when you take a step back from it, the whole thing is incredibly juvenile. When it comes to "bottling", I think that became a thing when Man Utd were dominating with Ferguson and Keane. They really looked down on other teams. Their fans still have that attitude and dish out the "bottle" accusation frequently.

Frustrating thing about Europa this year is the one year we're not in it and its Frankfurt and Rangers who are in the final. No disrespect to those two but it is hardly Chelsea, Villarreal or Atletico that we had to contend with when we were in with a shout.

It would be great if West Ham can win their last game and Man U lose or draw so Man U get relegated to the Conference league.

Agreed but there are some pundits who rise above the lazy stereotypes. I used to think Gary Neville was one but his views on Arsenal and Man U this season have been hyperbolic and childish. He was obviously very wrong in his assessments of both teams at the start and throughout the season and he's almost doubled down on it at any opportunity that would then suit his original argument even though it is still fatally flawed. I find Carragher a much better pundit nowadays - perhaps it is because Liverpool are so superior that he can be more objective and relaxed when looking at others

When Arteta took over in December 2019 Arsenal had 32 first team players. After this summer's transfer business I would expect only 7 of those to still be with Arsenal. Tierney, Holding, Cédric, Emile Smith Rowe, Xhaka, Saka, Martinelli, Saliba.

Those who are still with us but I expect to leave are: Leno, Lacazette, Elneny, Nketiah, Bellerin, Torreira, AMN, Nelson, Pépé, Mari, Guendouzi, Mavropanos.

So of that 32 we've already permanently moved on 13 of them. 2 more have obligation to buy clauses and 3 more are out of contract. So that is 17 out of 32 almost definitely gone and likely another 7-8 to follow.

The squad churn in 2.5 years has been something I haven't seen at any club apart from those that have a new sugar daddy

One thing we must, must fix are these slow starts to the season. It is a hangover from the latter Wenger years and late trolley dash-ing leaving us woefully prepared.

This season 3 defeats and no goals from 3 games
in 20/21 is was 3 defeats in the first 6
in 19/20 it was a little better but still only won 3 of our first 7
in 18/19 we lost our opening two games
in 17/18 we lost 2 of our opening 3 games
in 16/17 we lost our opening game of the season
in 15/16 we lost our opening game of the season

It would help if the 'random' fixture computer was a bit kinder

In those 7 seasons above we've faced Liverpool in our opening 3 games 5 times, we've faced chelsea in the opening 6 games 5 times and Man City 3 times in the opening 6.

https://twitter.com/Watch_LFC/status/15 ... JK_teMf-SQ

It isn't just Arsenal games that have to suffer poor refs. I can slightly understand the on-field ref missing this if he had a poor angle, but the var ref has to pick this up, this foul leads to the Southampton goal

We need to sort out the ability to come from behind in games. We've only won points twice when coming from behind in a game. Palace and Wolves at home. More than that we only managed to get an equalising goal 3 times when we were behind irrespective of the final score. It still appears that conceding knocks our confidence and trust in what we do - of course that is much more likely to happen to a young team than an experienced one.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... 1652805420

Hickey looks a lot like Tierney!

Ramsdale out !

I'll post a video of him to seal the deal.

Getting through the group stage can only mean we would have been ready for the Champions League, which I noticed Darren denied this morning in whatever words he used. I’m sorry, I just think it’s wrong to start saying it’s better to have qualified for the Europa.

With the financial implications and Arsenal being more attractive to new signings in the Champions League, it would be better to qualify for it. The point about the Europa was made as an add on. Had we finished third in the group stage we would have ended up in it anyway.

Didn’t you yourself say you found the Europa tedious or boring recently? I’m certain you said words to that effect though I can’t be bothered to search for it. I never said that by the way. What I am saying is that it would have benefited the club to qualify for the Champions League. Pretending otherwise is just kidding yourself.

We actually drew 2-2 at home to Crystal Palace. I suppose to put your point (I imagine made more relevant by the Palace result not being a win) in context, how common is coming from behind to win games? It’s presumably more common than the times Arsenal do it, by bigger clubs anyway. But knowing how common it is, which I’ve no idea about, would help to give your view some context.

There are lots of suggestions on players to improve our squad on here. But what does the team look like after this. Lets look at Bissouma: does he replace Ødegaard or Xhaka or Partey. He has 111 EPL appearances for 3 goals according to his wikpedia profile. Is he an improvement. Jesus : does he replace Martnelli or Saka - probably Martenelli. How good is he defensively? Playing with Man City it isn't possible to tell.

Any CF would appear to need to play the connection role because no one else seems capable. I just don't see a 20 goal forward who is capable of this and that we can attract to the club.

It will be interesting to see if there are any players who want to exit the club after this season. There was an article the other day saying Partey was not happy with his role and wanted to move. Now it may be clickbait but you never know what people want to do after they look back on the season.

Interesting post Gaz. I’ve seen reports that Partey wants to leave as well, or at least is open to a move. I think those who would like Bissouma to replace Xhaka could be disappointed. I just don’t see him replacing Ødegaard who I’m certain Arteta will make the new club captain this summer.

Of course Bissouma might replace Xhaka. But I wouldn’t bet on it as I simply don’t think Partey has been the resounding success at Arsenal that many here appear to see him as. Partey himself gave his own form at Arsenal 4/10 in his first season. I wouldn’t argue with that. I think he has improved this season but I don’t think it’s impossible that Arteta might be a bit underwhelmed with Partey too.

I was also interested by your views on Jesus. Myself I think our biggest need this summer is a new central striker, whether or not Nketiah leaves, which I still expect him to. If we sign Jesus, that’s the role I would expect him to fill. But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. When I see City, to me Jesus looks the nearest thing they have to a weak link. I reckon that’s why Guardiola might be open to letting him leave.

One of the posters whose views I respect here is dec. It wasn’t too long ago that dec said if we signed Abraham, Jesus wouldn’t be an automatic starter for Arsenal. I wouldn’t argue with dec on that, and I personally don’t think Abraham is world class either.

Moreover, Rich himself said (unless I misunderstood his post and I’d be surprised if I did) that signing Jesus and no other striker this summer would represent underwhelming business for Arsenal on the ‘new striker’ front this summer. Rich is another poster I respect here, at least when he isn’t droning on about referees. If he did say that about Jesus, I would feel the same as him.

I’ve provided a couple of links about Partey wanting to move on, for those who haven’t seen anything about it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expres ... s-swap/amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hitc.c ... eal/%3Famp

100%, except for the part about kidding myself. I should have said 'silver lining' rather than 'blessing in disguise' in my original post. I don't think it is better.

Fair enough. I reckon ‘silver lining’ is a much better way of putting it than ‘blessing in disguise’.