Fixtures Saturday November 23rd - Southampton - Emirates Stadium - 3:00 Pm

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Post #511721  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:43 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
See the strange thing is this country is populated by people well ahead of their time - they chose Brexit a long time ago. From my family perspective one branch 1863. Strategic thinkers.
That is heritage - some of my family went over as £10 Poms in the early 60s.

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Post #511722  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:46 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
It will be, but hopefully outside the European Union. Just like it was for a couple of thousand years before 1973.

Yay !

Let’s go back to the days of Brighton beachfront hotels exploding !
Prefer the founding of the NHS myself.

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Post #511723  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:06 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yay !

Let’s go back to the days of Brighton beachfront hotels exploding !
Prefer the founding of the NHS myself.

Yeah that 350 million is sure coming in handy


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Post #511724  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:18 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Prefer the founding of the NHS myself.

Yeah that 350 million is sure coming in handy
Like Özil I set 'em up, and you put 'em away.

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Post #511725  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:46 pm 
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Wenger's take on what happened with Gnabry.

https://talksport.com/football/613327/a ... ge-gnabry/

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Post #511726  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:27 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
We would have been better served taking back Fabregas. :7laughter: :1laughter:

I said this at the time.

The Özil transfer has been a disaster let’s be honest, the player who was supposed to kick us on but only provided a few fleeting moments and took a lorry load of our money away.


With Pépé still finding his feet and off form, it's a bit ridiculous that Özil has not been used more by Emery this season.


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Post #511727  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I said this at the time.

The Özil transfer has been a disaster let’s be honest, the player who was supposed to kick us on but only provided a few fleeting moments and took a lorry load of our money away.


With Pépé still finding his feet and off form, it's a bit ridiculous that Özil has not been used more by Emery this season.


I’m in the DHD camp I just don’t see what he brings anymore

Look at the forest game an opportunity to prove many wrong, he did ok ish But if you look at him now compared to his first 2 seasons there’s a massive difference. He just doesn’t carry the ball anymore (watch next time he plays he prefers to just recycle possession these days)

In the last 2 seasons I can only really recall the home game at Leicester when you could honestly say he was good and worthy of a spot.


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Post #511728  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:30 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Goonie wrote:

With Pépé still finding his feet and off form, it's a bit ridiculous that Özil has not been used more by Emery this season.


I’m in the DHD camp I just don’t see what he brings anymore

Look at the forest game an opportunity to prove many wrong, he did ok ish But if you look at him now compared to his first 2 seasons there’s a massive difference. He just doesn’t carry the ball anymore (watch next time he plays he prefers to just recycle possession these days)

In the last 2 seasons I can only really recall the home game at Leicester when you could honestly say he was good and worthy of a spot.


I don't see Özil as a first teamer anymore. But I think he can still do a job for us especially in home games where we are expected to dominate possession. I think Emery has handled Özil wrongly. He's the type that needs the manager to believe in him. No coincidence his best years for us was under Wenger.


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Post #511729  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

I’m in the DHD camp I just don’t see what he brings anymore

Look at the forest game an opportunity to prove many wrong, he did ok ish But if you look at him now compared to his first 2 seasons there’s a massive difference. He just doesn’t carry the ball anymore (watch next time he plays he prefers to just recycle possession these days)

In the last 2 seasons I can only really recall the home game at Leicester when you could honestly say he was good and worthy of a spot.


I don't see Özil as a first teamer anymore. But I think he can still do a job for us especially in home games where we are expected to dominate possession. I think Emery has handled Özil wrongly. He's the type that needs the manager to believe in him. No coincidence his best years for us was under Wenger.


Özil has 2 good seasons then he was starting to under achieve under Wenger who then handed him a huge contract after.

I think Emery mismanaged Özil last year when he didn’t play him despite having few adequate creative outlets at that point but I get the feeling with Özil any decent top class manager would have dropped him like Emery and he would have let down anyway. He has played for Emery and had the opportunity to prove him wrong but he hasn’t and it’s just so typical of Özil that he hasn’t performed after that Germany fiasco.

I don’t think this is about the manager there’s something about the guy that’s just so lax


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Post #511730  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:54 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Goonie wrote:
With Pépé still finding his feet and off form, it's a bit ridiculous that Özil has not been used more by Emery this season.


I’m in the DHD camp I just don’t see what he brings anymore

Look at the forest game an opportunity to prove many wrong, he did ok ish But if you look at him now compared to his first 2 seasons there’s a massive difference. He just doesn’t carry the ball anymore (watch next time he plays he prefers to just recycle possession these days)

In the last 2 seasons I can only really recall the home game at Leicester when you could honestly say he was good and worthy of a spot.

I’m now firmly in the DHD camp as well. You’re right Top Gun, Özil produces so little, which has been the case for a long time now, that I can’t see the sense of any suggestion that it’s ridiculous Emery doesn’t use him more. It’s basically playing with ten men when he’s in the team.

Having said that, I can understand why Özil got the contract he has. Arsenal had just lost Sanchez and as both their contracts were expiring at the same time the club’s hierarchy probably didn’t feel it could afford to lose Özil as well with regards to their own credibility with the fan base. So he got an almighty pay rise to get him to sign a new contract.

Sadly, it’s proved to be an utter waste of money as Özil is simply going through the motions. He plays when selected, so on the face of it is behaving professionally. But he doesn’t seem bothered when he isn’t picked. Gives me the impression he’s semi-retired.


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Post #511731  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:52 pm 
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I agree about Özil effectively being semi retired. What a waste of talent. I’m surprised he doesn’t get asked more frequently why he seems content letting his career just fade away. He’s getting paid handsomely anyway so why not make the effort? Does he not care about his legacy or standing in the game?


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Post #511732  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:57 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
...also, someone explain how Santi couldn't stay fit for us but as soon as he gets to go back to Spain he's working wonders again? Either we don't know how to get someone fit or he pulled a 'Sol' on us and he doesn't seem the type.

There was nothing wrong with Campbell’s attitude. I consider it shameful the way you try to undermine the reputation of an Arsenal legend by implying he “pulled a ‘Sol’ on us”. Disgraceful behaviour by you. Campbell deserves the respect of Arsenal fans.


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Post #511733  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:35 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
...also, someone explain how Santi couldn't stay fit for us but as soon as he gets to go back to Spain he's working wonders again? Either we don't know how to get someone fit or he pulled a 'Sol' on us and he doesn't seem the type.

There was nothing wrong with Campbell’s attitude. I consider it shameful the way you try to undermine the reputation of an Arsenal legend by implying he “pulled a ‘Sol’ on us”. Disgraceful behaviour by you. Campbell deserves the respect of Arsenal fans.

More to the point is the fact that Cazorla's return to football (which really is very old news now) is something to be celebrated. The man had an absolutely horrific injury. Wenger described it as the worst he had come across in his entire time involved in football. There was a genuine fear that he would never walk properly again, even talk of amputation. It's simply tremendous that he is playing again.

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Post #511734  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:48 pm 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
There was nothing wrong with Campbell’s attitude. I consider it shameful the way you try to undermine the reputation of an Arsenal legend by implying he “pulled a ‘Sol’ on us”. Disgraceful behaviour by you. Campbell deserves the respect of Arsenal fans.

More to the point is the fact that Cazorla's return to football (which really is very old news now) is something to be celebrated. The man had an absolutely horrific injury. Wenger described it as the worst he had come across in his entire time involved in football. There was a genuine fear that he would never walk properly again, even talk of amputation. It's simply tremendous that he is playing again.

Couldn’t agree more about Cazorla’s return to fitness. But I thought it was disgraceful to unfairly disrespect Sol to discuss it.


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Post #511735  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:44 pm 
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Right on cue

Turkish newspaper Takvim claims Fenerbahce director of football Damien Comolli has opened talks with Arsenal over signing Mesut Özil on loan in January

We will be paying some of his wages apparently


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Post #511736  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:53 pm 
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Özil to the Toon? Would he go? Could they pay him?

https://tbrfootball.com/should-newcastl ... esut-ozil/

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Post #511737  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:55 pm 
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I wonder if we are still interested in him.

https://tbrfootball.com/summer-arsenal- ... o-2019-20/
Summer Arsenal target Daniele Rugani has had miserable start to 2019/20

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Post #511738  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:05 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Özil to the Toon? Would he go? Could they pay him?

https://tbrfootball.com/should-newcastl ... esut-ozil/

No chance

Even if arsenal paid 120k a week of his salary it means mike Ashley agreeing to pay 200k a week for Özil which won’t happen then it would require Özil living in Newcastle when he doesn’t even bother playing away games in the north east for us so there’s precisely *%^@ all chance of the little Herbert agreeing to go there


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Post #511739  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Well there’s a surprise. I never saw that coming

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... ockey-team

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Post #511740  Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:43 pm 
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Didn't know they played ice hockey in the UK enough to even have a league. That said, its a smart move on the club to bring attention to them and the sport.

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Post #511741  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:39 am 
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Jumping on the Özil discussion, I believe he is no longer interested to turn it on for Arsenal. IMO, his relationship with Emery has reached a point of no return. Put him on, and we are a 10 man team. He is not going to go all out, to find a way to send balls through for goal scoring chances. Well, if I was earning tons and yet have a manager who does not believe in me, I would do the same. That would be my only way to say to my manager "up yours!", and yet stay professionally correct. Emery mismanaged him.

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Post #511742  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:20 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Jumping on the Özil discussion, I believe he is no longer interested to turn it on for Arsenal. IMO, his relationship with Emery has reached a point of no return. Put him on, and we are a 10 man team. He is not going to go all out, to find a way to send balls through for goal scoring chances. Well, if I was earning tons and yet have a manager who does not believe in me, I would do the same. That would be my only way to say to my manager "up yours!", and yet stay professionally correct. Emery mismanaged him.


What about the Europa league final then when Özil stunk the place out for 77 minutes then got subbed for Willock who showed more in those 13 minutes than our most expensive earner.

The only way we get rid of Özil is to drop him completely surely people can see that. It’s not being mismanaged. If we keep playing him the lacklustre performances continue as he will want to keep raking in a ridiculous salary he won’t get elsewhere. I seriously doubt he will get a 200k a week wage offer let alone 350 so he’s going to have to be paid off.


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Post #511743  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:06 am 
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When I think Özil my thoughts automatically divert to Fabregas ...

20-year-old Cesc Fàbregas for Arsenal during 2007/2008 season:

47 games
15 goals
22 assists


Compare that level of contribution to Mesut

Özil just never really did it for us at all. Decent couple of seasons and a very intelligent player at that point but his attitude stinks to high heaven.


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Post #511744  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:11 am 
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Forget about bloody Brexit, this Wagatha Christie story is proper news. Comedy gold.

Fiendish criminal mastermind Rebekah Moriarty Vardy's dastardly plot to take over the world was thwarted by the sheer genius of newly appointed head of MI5 Colleen Sherlock Rooney.

OMG.


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Post #511745  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:21 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Jumping on the Özil discussion, I believe he is no longer interested to turn it on for Arsenal. IMO, his relationship with Emery has reached a point of no return. Put him on, and we are a 10 man team. He is not going to go all out, to find a way to send balls through for goal scoring chances. Well, if I was earning tons and yet have a manager who does not believe in me, I would do the same. That would be my only way to say to my manager "up yours!", and yet stay professionally correct. Emery mismanaged him.


What about the Europa league final then when Özil stunk the place out for 77 minutes then got subbed for Willock who showed more in those 13 minutes than our most expensive earner.

The only way we get rid of Özil is to drop him completely surely people can see that. It’s not being mismanaged. If we keep playing him the lacklustre performances continue as he will want to keep raking in a ridiculous salary he won’t get elsewhere. I seriously doubt he will get a 200k a week wage offer let alone 350 so he’s going to have to be paid off.


Well, I was not defending Özil. He is clearly disinterested to bust a gut for the team, and much less so for Emery. I do not wish to see him in an Arsenal shirt anymore. Okay, maybe Emery did not mismanage him, I don't know. But, I would do the same as Özil. Carry on earning the fat wages and doing little, or nothing at all.
Emery allows it, so why not?

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Post #511746  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:59 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
The only way we get rid of Özil is to drop him completely surely people can see that. It’s not being mismanaged. If we keep playing him the lacklustre performances continue as he will want to keep raking in a ridiculous salary he won’t get elsewhere. I seriously doubt he will get a 200k a week wage offer let alone 350 so he’s going to have to be paid off.

But, I would do the same as Özil. Carry on earning the fat wages and doing little, or nothing at all.
Emery allows it, so why not?

What can Emery do to stop it? The managerial decision-making structure is no longer what it was in the Wenger years. I doubt paying off Özil’s contract is his final decision. All Emery can do is attempt to persuade the hierarchy above him, presumably Raul Sanllehi in the main, to either pay off his contract or meet much of Özil’s salary if he agrees to join another club on loan. The obvious strategy for Emery to do that is not pick him, and he’s basically doing that apart from giving Özil the occasional chance of proving he wants to play, which Özil is clearly not doing.

I don’t see how it’s fair to blame Emery for the situation with Özil, including any claim that Emery has mismanaged him.


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Post #511747  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:22 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
Well there’s a surprise. I never saw that coming

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... ockey-team
Remember Trevor Hockey?

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Post #511748  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:31 am 
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socrates wrote:
Forget about bloody Brexit, this Wagatha Christie story is proper news. Comedy gold.

Fiendish criminal mastermind Rebekah Moriarty Vardy's dastardly plot to take over the world was thwarted by the sheer genius of newly appointed head of MI5 Colleen Sherlock Rooney.

OMG.


:42laughter:

It’s brilliant

Vardy is a shameless self publicist

Basically there’s only one way to sort this out and it’s a paddling pool filled with jelly and the 2 of them wrestling till it meets a conclusion


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Post #511749  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:48 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Well there’s a surprise. I never saw that coming

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... ockey-team
Remember Trevor Hockey?

Loved the beard. If your team looked like it could be in relegation trouble the manager would go out and sign Trevor. Not the most skilful, indeed often simply brutal but if you needed to pick a player to fight for your life you would pencil in his name.

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Post #511750  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:57 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
But, I would do the same as Özil. Carry on earning the fat wages and doing little, or nothing at all.
Emery allows it, so why not?

What can Emery do to stop it? The managerial decision-making structure is no longer what it was in the Wenger years. I doubt paying off Özil’s contract is his final decision. All Emery can do is attempt to persuade the hierarchy above him, presumably Raul Sanllehi in the main, to either pay off his contract or meet much of Özil’s salary if he agrees to join another club on loan. The obvious strategy for Emery to do that is not pick him, and he’s basically doing that apart from giving Özil the occasional chance of proving he wants to play, which Özil is clearly not doing.

I don’t see how it’s fair to blame Emery for the situation with Özil, including any claim that Emery has mismanaged him.


Also why should the club have to pay off his contract because Özil is playing beneath himself.

Contrast how Ramsey was playing out of self respect after he agreed to his Juve move to how Özil is playing now going through the motions. Shows something about his character


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Post #511751  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:40 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I wonder if we are still interested in him.

https://tbrfootball.com/summer-arsenal- ... o-2019-20/
Summer Arsenal target Daniele Rugani has had miserable start to 2019/20


I thought he would have been a better bet than Luiz. Gone off the boil a bit but on form a better defender than Luiz.

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Post #511752  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:52 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
I wonder if we are still interested in him.

https://tbrfootball.com/summer-arsenal- ... o-2019-20/
Summer Arsenal target Daniele Rugani has had miserable start to 2019/20


I thought he would have been a better bet than Luiz. Gone off the boil a bit but on form a better defender than Luiz.


He would have cost 36 million and there were massive doubts about him last season.

I think the club were worried about another Mustafi signing and opted for LUiz as a stop gap


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Post #511753  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Well there’s a surprise. I never saw that coming

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... ockey-team
Remember Trevor Hockey?

Ho ho ho. :58big-emoticons:

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Post #511754  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:46 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Gunfire wrote:

I thought he would have been a better bet than Luiz. Gone off the boil a bit but on form a better defender than Luiz.


He would have cost 36 million and there were massive doubts about him last season.

I think the club were worried about another Mustafi signing and opted for LUiz as a stop gap


I thought the figure was less around 24 million. And Luiz has not thus far been much of an addition.

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Post #511755  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:09 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
Forget about bloody Brexit, this Wagatha Christie story is proper news. Comedy gold.

Fiendish criminal mastermind Rebekah Moriarty Vardy's dastardly plot to take over the world was thwarted by the sheer genius of newly appointed head of MI5 Colleen Sherlock Rooney.

OMG.


:42laughter:

It’s brilliant

Vardy is a shameless self publicist

Basically there’s only one way to sort this out and it’s a paddling pool filled with jelly and the 2 of them wrestling till it meets a conclusion

Oh it's a mud singer alright... :1laughter:


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Post #511756  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:45 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Also why should the club have to pay off his contract because Özil is playing beneath himself. Contrast how Ramsey was playing out of self respect after he agreed to his Juve move to how Özil is playing now going through the motions. Shows something about his character
People don't rate Özil, everyone entitled to a view, but how can he be considered to be going through the motions when he isn't even playing? Two 70 minute appearances in 11 first team games - he has hardly had a chance to play beneath himself this season. Bottom line is that the manager doesn't fancy him. That Özil hasn't been all over the media complaing about it shouldn't be used against him as not giving a monkeys.

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Post #511757  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:00 pm 
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Emery dropped Özil last season when half the team was performing poorly. As we continued to struggle, he persisted with an out of form Iwobi ahead of Özil. Didn't he even suggest at one stage that Özil would be better off somewhere else?

He wasn't playing Ramsey either until injuries forced him to and Ramsey was MOTM game after game.

Now it's perfectly legitimate to question why Özil didn't react like Ramsey. I think it's very obvious that Ramsey loves the club. He became a proper footballer at Arsenal. Özil clearly has no such emotional connection and is a different type of character altogether.

Özil was very good in his first two seasons with us. He was the leading creator of chances in the league by a mile.

I think Emery has managed him very badly. Özil deserves plenty of criticism but Emery certainly doesn't help.

Appoint him as one of your 5 captains (such an absurdity) and then drop him from the squad.

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Post #511758  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:05 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Also why should the club have to pay off his contract because Özil is playing beneath himself. Contrast how Ramsey was playing out of self respect after he agreed to his Juve move to how Özil is playing now going through the motions. Shows something about his character
People don't rate Özil, everyone entitled to a view, but how can he be considered to be going through the motions when he isn't even playing?
.


Because when he has played over the last 2 years his displays have been lethargic and disappointing.

Like I said Europa league final .... did less than Willock did And he was only on the pitch 13 minutes.

There was once a decent player in there who did it in spurts and could find passes few could but now there’s nothing.

He just wants us to pay up his contract early in full so he can go back to turkey. It’s obvious and we are right to dig our heels in.


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Post #511759  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:27 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
People don't rate Özil, everyone entitled to a view, but how can he be considered to be going through the motions when he isn't even playing?

Because when he has played over the last 2 years his displays have been lethargic and disappointing. Like I said Europa league final .... did less than Willock did And he was only on the pitch 13 minutes. There was once a decent player in there who did it in spurts and could find passes few could but now there’s nothing.
He just wants us to pay up his contract early in full so he can go back to turkey. It’s obvious and we are right to dig our heels in.
That doesn't answer the point about him supposedly going through the motions when he isn't even playing. That is some trick! You state as an obvious fact that he wants to have his contract paid up in full in order to go to Turkey. How do you know that?

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Post #511760  Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:06 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Because when he has played over the last 2 years his displays have been lethargic and disappointing. Like I said Europa league final .... did less than Willock did And he was only on the pitch 13 minutes. There was once a decent player in there who did it in spurts and could find passes few could but now there’s nothing.
He just wants us to pay up his contract early in full so he can go back to turkey. It’s obvious and we are right to dig our heels in.
That doesn't answer the point about him supposedly going through the motions when he isn't even playing. That is some trick! You state as an obvious fact that he wants to have his contract paid up in full in order to go to Turkey. How do you know that?

Presumably he's not putting it in on the training field either Hoy, and his displays have been ordinary at best for as long as I can remember when he has played. I think it was Bernard (apologies if I'm wrong there) who said something to the effect that playing Özil was pretty much playing with 10 men. In my opinion he's done nothing to deserve a place in the side. Having a massive wage is not enough to justify playing a passenger. I've long since had enough of him and the sooner he's out of the club the better.


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