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Post #502081  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:56 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
What a mess.

I’d rather have hicks and gillet or an owner investing in the club rather than one who just wants to take our cash for profit. Kroenke out.

I would probably rather have Jack the Ripper as the owner than Stan Kroenke. And that's despite nobody truly knowing who Jack the Ripper was, despite all the theories naming different people that may well have been formulated to sell books and get people watching television documentaries. Also, despite the fact that whoever it was, Jack the Ripper will be dead by now. If the murderer was about 30 when he committed the crimes he'd have been born over 161 years ago, and nobody lives anything like that old. Moreover, don't forget that life expectancy back then was much lower than now.


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Post #502082  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:58 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Saw this on twitter

Highlights our issues


Wenger over thought things, vacillated too much, too stubborn to get down of his high horse, justified his own decisions and sadly, this latter phase of him resides more in memory than his earlier successes. The period of decline was as long, if not longer, than the period of ascension.
His Invincibles and the 49-match unbeaten runs cannot be erased though. But for me, his destruction of the team over-shadows those achievements.

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Post #502083  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:03 am 
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Amazing we have no more money to buy players this window... unbelievable news.

Think it's time to follow Dortmund's wheeling and dealing model - buy high and sell higher.


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Post #502084  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:44 am 
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Rich wrote:
I think the current regime has been more hit than miss.

I think the early signs are really positive regarding our transfer business – Lichtsteiner is horrendous but only a backup. Leno has his flaws, but show a lot of potential. Sokratis has been a definite upgrade for me, the fact that we need to strengthen the position further is not his fault. Torreira, Aubameyang and Guendozi have ben brilliant signings. It takes time to completely change the structure of a club the way Arsenal has attempted to do.

And of course, it takes money as well. I’ve been very clear about what I think about the notion that an owner has some obligation to bankroll signings. However, the club not having any of its own money to spend is of course a different matter. One where serious questions needs to be asked. Unfortunately I wouldn’t expect any answers until at least in the summer, if we get any answers at all.


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Post #502085  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:30 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
However, the club not having any of its own money to spend is of course a different matter. One where serious questions needs to be asked. Unfortunately I wouldn’t expect any answers until at least in the summer, if we get any answers at all.

Now he owns the club completely, Kroenke doesn't have to answer anything. My bet would be on a carefully worded 'we are ambitious and want to win trophies' type statement. I'll be surprised if we get much more than that.


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Post #502086  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:14 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
However, the club not having any of its own money to spend is of course a different matter. One where serious questions needs to be asked. Unfortunately I wouldn’t expect any answers until at least in the summer, if we get any answers at all.

Now he owns the club completely, Kroenke doesn't have to answer anything. My bet would be on a carefully worded 'we are ambitious and want to win trophies' type statement. I'll be surprised if we get much more than that.


After the spurs match I posted that we would be getting Kroenke out protests within 24 months. I stand by this prediction.

Your right he doesn’t have to tell us anything.

The major problem the club has over the next few years will be the prices of tickets don’t justify the entertainment that will be served up at the Emirates so the empty seats will continue as it becomes abundantly clear arsenal can no longer compete at the highest level.

I really don’t think Kroenke cares at all about this, he’s borrowed about 1 billion to buy arsenal and the club is now valued at over 2.7 billion so he’s made 1.7 billion dollars purely from running an unsuccessful football club for 10 years.!!! Money for old rope.

Even if we had an empty stadium for another 10 years the club would be increasing in value anyway because of sponsorship and shares would be going up in value.

The only hope we are is that Kroenke finds a new business venture that requires financing and he needs access to the capital in his arsenal shares and sells. However that would be absolutely crazy on his part as he has made over 1 billion dollars from arsenal for just borrowing money to buy us and doing nothing and that profit will only increase

It’s like buying Buckingham palace letting the whole place rot and get run down over 20 years before selling it for a fortune. Kroenke is a *%^@

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Post #502087  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:43 am 
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I don’t really understand the clamour for the Owner to fund new purchases with new money. It isn’t necessary.

It’s perfectly reasonable for any business to fund acquisitions or capital outlay based on loans which are secured against assets. That’s how business works. Arsenal FC have a massive asset base. As a business, the club is probably worth upwards of £2billion and has a revenue stream of maybe £500m+ per year – and all without much debt. With that sort of covenant, Funders would queue up to offer massive loans on very favourable terms. This sort of business plan would be entirely in line with a ‘self-sustaining’ model.

If a business decides to operate from current account only, from cash in hand without any borrowing, that’s a very different strategy. It’s still self-sustaining but by business standards, it’s an overly cautious, no risk approach. British industrial history tells us it’s a recipe for low growth and indeed stagnation.

I hesitate to offer any advice to Stan, who is a largely self-made billionaire, but it's sad if the Club choose this latter route when there's really no need.


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Post #502088  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:11 pm 
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I see the Cup game v Man U is to be a Friday night 7:55 job - cue a howl of protest from those few mancs who actually live in the North and won't get home until the early hours. Trains won't be an option for that kick-off time.

Same thing happened a couple of years ago when we drew them up there and the tie was switched to a Monday night - even worse for us since the Tuesday was a working day.

Similar timing/travel issues for the Blackpool tie the other week.

There really be should be some appreciation of away fans' travel issues. In these sustainable times, is it too much to ask that it should be possible for fans to get to and from away matches by Public Transport?


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Post #502089  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:11 pm 
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DHD wrote:
I don’t really understand the clamour for the Owner to fund new purchases with new money. It isn’t necessary.

It’s perfectly reasonable for any business to fund acquisitions or capital outlay based on loans which are secured against assets. That’s how business works. Arsenal FC have a massive asset base. As a business, the club is probably worth upwards of £2billion and has a revenue stream of maybe £500m+ per year – and all without much debt. With that sort of covenant, Funders would queue up to offer massive loans on very favourable terms. This sort of business plan would be entirely in line with a ‘self-sustaining’ model.

If a business decides to operate from current account only, from cash in hand without any borrowing, that’s a very different strategy. It’s still self-sustaining but by business standards, it’s an overly cautious, no risk approach. British industrial history tells us it’s a recipe for low growth and indeed stagnation.

I hesitate to offer any advice to Stan, who is a largely self-made billionaire, but it's sad if the Club choose this latter route when there's really no need.


Oh well another ten years of finishing 5th then.

He’s a person with zero understanding about football and I bet he doesn’t even check for our result. He’s left games at half time and football isn’t the same as any other business. Acquiring a football team isn’t the same as owning a vineyard or restaurant it’s completley evolving

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Post #502090  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:51 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
DHD wrote:
I don’t really understand the clamour for the Owner to fund new purchases with new money. It isn’t necessary.

It’s perfectly reasonable for any business to fund acquisitions or capital outlay based on loans which are secured against assets. That’s how business works. Arsenal FC have a massive asset base. As a business, the club is probably worth upwards of £2billion and has a revenue stream of maybe £500m+ per year – and all without much debt. With that sort of covenant, Funders would queue up to offer massive loans on very favourable terms. This sort of business plan would be entirely in line with a ‘self-sustaining’ model.

If a business decides to operate from current account only, from cash in hand without any borrowing, that’s a very different strategy. It’s still self-sustaining but by business standards, it’s an overly cautious, no risk approach. British industrial history tells us it’s a recipe for low growth and indeed stagnation.

I hesitate to offer any advice to Stan, who is a largely self-made billionaire, but it's sad if the Club choose this latter route when there's really no need.


Oh well another ten years of finishing 5th then.

He’s a person with zero understanding about football and I bet he doesn’t even check for our result. He’s left games at half time and football isn’t the same as any other business. Acquiring a football team isn’t the same as owning a vineyard or restaurant it’s completley evolving


It's deeply depressing prospect, isn't it TG?

As I say, I have no problem with a 'self-sustaining' strategy per se. Man U is run on self-sustaining lines. The Owners have put in absolutely nothing (quite the reverse) and the Club carries enormous debt - but nobody worries because the borrowing is backed up by the capital value of the business and it's capacity and track record on revenue generation. We don't have anywhere near their revenue capabilities but then we only carry a tiny fraction of their debt in terms of percentage of the club's value. There's no business reason why we can't raise funds by borrowing. If the club has a healthy trading position - and we do - astute and targetted borrowing can significantly enhance the position.

Investment can (many say 'should) be based on borrowing. It's how businesses grow.


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Post #502091  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:31 pm 
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DHD wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Oh well another ten years of finishing 5th then.

He’s a person with zero understanding about football and I bet he doesn’t even check for our result. He’s left games at half time and football isn’t the same as any other business. Acquiring a football team isn’t the same as owning a vineyard or restaurant it’s completley evolving


It's deeply depressing prospect, isn't it TG?

As I say, I have no problem with a 'self-sustaining' strategy per se. Man U is run on self-sustaining lines. The Owners have put in absolutely nothing (quite the reverse) and the Club carries enormous debt - but nobody worries because the borrowing is backed up by the capital value of the business and it's capacity and track record on revenue generation. We don't have anywhere near their revenue capabilities but then we only carry a tiny fraction of their debt in terms of percentage of the club's value. There's no business reason why we can't raise funds by borrowing. If the club has a healthy trading position - and we do - astute and targetted borrowing can significantly enhance the position.

Investment can (many say 'should) be based on borrowing. It's how businesses grow.

Especially with interest rates what they are. Arsenal sadly have repeatedly squandered the opportunities created by their success and location. Very British, as you say. The kind of thing that got Keynes so exercised back in the 1920s.

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Post #502092  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:31 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Now he owns the club completely, Kroenke doesn't have to answer anything. My bet would be on a carefully worded 'we are ambitious and want to win trophies' type statement. I'll be surprised if we get much more than that.


After the spurs match I posted that we would be getting Kroenke out protests within 24 months. I stand by this prediction.

You weren't tempted to take a few days off with the predictions after your 'James is a done deal - you'd be mad not to trust The Mirror' on Monday?

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Post #502093  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:45 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

After the spurs match I posted that we would be getting Kroenke out protests within 24 months. I stand by this prediction.

You weren't tempted to take a few days off with the predictions after your 'James is a done deal - you'd be mad not to trust The Mirror' on Monday?


The James thing was a joke. Sarcasticly pretending to believe it for a laugh because it was so absurd.

We are getting Kroenke protests soon though trust me

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Post #502094  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:02 pm 
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DHD wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Oh well another ten years of finishing 5th then.

He’s a person with zero understanding about football and I bet he doesn’t even check for our result. He’s left games at half time and football isn’t the same as any other business. Acquiring a football team isn’t the same as owning a vineyard or restaurant it’s completley evolving


It's deeply depressing prospect, isn't it TG?

As I say, I have no problem with a 'self-sustaining' strategy per se. Man U is run on self-sustaining lines.


Totally DHD your observations are spot on.

The thing is our situation is very similar to Man U except there’s 2 slight differences

1) their owners are slightly more engaged than Kroenke attending matches and are generally more bought into their investment and the overall club

2) united are a commercial powerhouse with huge revenue from many areas. Their owners don’t need to put cash in and their borrowing can be easily serviced whilst be successful with the right manager. This simply isn’t arsenal and if we are servicing Kroenkes borrowing with our own cash it will affect our ability to recruit players.

It will turn toxic. If 2 tickets to watch FC Qarabag cost 70 quid people will stop going. It’s not good value

The team needs probably a 200 million investment in new players to compete. Given our budget was 70 this summer we have a turning circle of 2 or more likely 3 years before we challenge again. People will grow impatient with Emery.

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Post #502095  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:25 pm 
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The Glazers operate Man U in a similar fashion to Kroenke's management of Arsenal. Actually they are worse, but because Man U have such huge revenue they can remain as financially competitive as anyone.

I've never understood why Arsenal held such huge cash reserves. Makes no financial sense.

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Post #502096  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:39 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
DHD wrote:

It's deeply depressing prospect, isn't it TG?

As I say, I have no problem with a 'self-sustaining' strategy per se. Man U is run on self-sustaining lines.



It will turn toxic. If 2 tickets to watch FC Qarabag cost 70 quid people will stop going. It’s not good value



Dooomed!!!

By the way, I saw your post about the Qarrierbag tickets - not sure where you bought them but Club Level apart, the most expensive seats in the stadium were freely available at about £23. Cheapest were about £15 yet there were barely 15,000 in the stadium.


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Post #502097  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:54 pm 
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DHD wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:


It will turn toxic. If 2 tickets to watch FC Qarabag cost 70 quid people will stop going. It’s not good value



Dooomed!!!

By the way, I saw your post about the Qarrierbag tickets - not sure where you bought them but Club Level apart, the most expensive seats in the stadium were freely available at about £23. Cheapest were about £15 yet there were barely 15,000 in the stadium.


I didn’t buy them in the end but the day before the game I went online and checked availability and for 2 tickets near the corner in the lower I was being quoted something like 70 quid I vaguely recall. It certainly wasn’t 25 a pop because I called a mate to see if he fancied it. He didn’t as he was on a promise from some bird that night or something . I’m not making it up. I don’t know if it was more expensive because it was last minute.com but struck me as a lot. Considering what the game represented.

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Post #502098  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:58 pm 
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dec wrote:
The Glazers operate Man U in a similar fashion to Kroenke's management of Arsenal. Actually they are worse, but because Man U have such huge revenue they can remain as financially competitive as anyone.

I've never understood why Arsenal held such huge cash reserves. Makes no financial sense.


Wasn’t there a suggestion it’s a condition of the stadium loan?

I can’t imagine that’s something that cant be renegotiated however if we took the 150 million out of the bank and spent it there’s no guarantee even that would bring success we are so far behind.

Kroenke probably has to keep it in reserve as security on the financing to build that stadium in LA for all we know.

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Post #502099  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:01 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
DHD wrote:

Dooomed!!!

By the way, I saw your post about the Qarrierbag tickets - not sure where you bought them but Club Level apart, the most expensive seats in the stadium were freely available at about £23. Cheapest were about £15 yet there were barely 15,000 in the stadium.


I didn’t buy them in the end but the day before the game I went online and checked availability and for 2 tickets near the corner in the lower I was being quoted something like 70 quid I vaguely recall. It certainly wasn’t 25 a pop because I called a mate to see if he fancied it. He didn’t as he was on a promise from some bird that night or something . I’m not making it up. I don’t know if it was more expensive because it was last minute.com but struck me as a lot. Considering what the game represented.


In that location, you - or anyone - could have bought tickets from the Club as a non-member for about £15. If you join as a Red Member, they'd have been even cheaper. Once in, you could've sat wherever you wanted since the place was almost empty.


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Post #502100  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:07 pm 
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DHD wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

I didn’t buy them in the end but the day before the game I went online and checked availability and for 2 tickets near the corner in the lower I was being quoted something like 70 quid I vaguely recall. It certainly wasn’t 25 a pop because I called a mate to see if he fancied it. He didn’t as he was on a promise from some bird that night or something . I’m not making it up. I don’t know if it was more expensive because it was last minute.com but struck me as a lot. Considering what the game represented.


In that location, you - or anyone - could have bought tickets from the Club as a non-member for about £15. If you join as a Red Member, they'd have been even cheaper. Once in, you could've sat wherever you wanted since the place was almost empty.

Really? something must have been wrong with the online store. I saw the goomer complaining about problems with it this week. I’m a member and that wasn’t the price being quoted.

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Post #502101  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
What a mess.

I’d rather have hicks and gillet or an owner investing in the club rather than one who just wants to take our cash for profit. Kroenke out.

I would probably rather have Jack the Ripper as the owner than Stan Kroenke. And that's despite nobody truly knowing who Jack the Ripper was, despite all the theories naming different people that may well have been formulated to sell books and get people watching television documentaries. Also, despite the fact that whoever it was, Jack the Ripper will be dead by now. If the murderer was about 30 when he committed the crimes he'd have been born over 161 years ago, and nobody lives anything like that old. Moreover, don't forget that life expectancy back then was much lower than now.

I'd even take Al Capone at this point. RIP Big Guy. :1laughter:

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Post #502102  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:15 pm 
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Cesc Fabregas left british football this week without much comment on here so I’ll just say that I believe that he was the last truly great midfielder we have had.

We have had great midfielders like Cazorla since but nobody who literally did it week in week out like Cesc. The way he could take the weight off a pass was perfect. The bbc seem are saying he statistically created more goal scoring chances than any other player in the premiership. This wouldn’t surprise me.

Arsene was crazy not to exercise our clause to resign him and the real sadness was the way he slumped at Barca (like he was always going to) and ended up at that lot.

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Post #502103  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:53 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Cesc Fabregas left british football this week without much comment on here so I’ll just say that I believe that he was the last truly great midfielder we have had.

We have had great midfielders like Cazorla since but nobody who literally did it week in week out like Cesc. The way he could take the weight off a pass was perfect. The bbc seem are saying he statistically created more goal scoring chances than any other player in the premiership. This wouldn’t surprise me.

Arsene was crazy not to exercise our clause to resign him and the real sadness was the way he slumped at Barca (like he was always going to) and ended up at that lot.

Agree completely about your assessment of him as a player for us. Best player we've had since the invincibles, and it's not even close. In his prime he could completely take over a game.

Disagree completely that we should've sign him when he went to Chelsea. Came into a very good Chelsea side that inflated his stats to begin with, but he was always just a shell of his former self with them.


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Post #502104  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:40 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Cesc Fabregas left british football this week without much comment on here so I’ll just say that I believe that he was the last truly great midfielder we have had.

We have had great midfielders like Cazorla since but nobody who literally did it week in week out like Cesc. The way he could take the weight off a pass was perfect. The bbc seem are saying he statistically created more goal scoring chances than any other player in the premiership. This wouldn’t surprise me.

Arsene was crazy not to exercise our clause to resign him and the real sadness was the way he slumped at Barca (like he was always going to) and ended up at that lot.

Agree completely about your assessment of him as a player for us. Best player we've had since the invincibles, and it's not even close. In his prime he could completely take over a game.

Disagree completely that we should've sign him when he went to Chelsea. Came into a very good Chelsea side that inflated his stats to begin with, but he was always just a shell of his former self with them.


He wasn’t in his prime at Chelsea but he never really suited their style which is all action press.

He signed for Chelsea at 27 years old for 30 million and we didn’t sign him because we had Ramsey and Özil.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27819204

.. the reality was even outside his peak he was a better player than both and if he had joined us then we would still be trying to keep him even now.

I think his spell at Barca damaged his career looking back which was a shame but not our fault

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Post #502105  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:20 pm 
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Protests?, maybe on a small scale but nothing like enough to dislodge the tumour. I suspect KSE will reduce ticket pricing in an attempt to fill the bowl, afterall ticket revenue is becoming a smaller factor now, that will probably be enough to appease enough fans to accept their new status as supporters of a midtable club.

Long term hopefully commercial and TV revenues take a huge hit as our status declines and at that point his 'investment' may start to devalue, maybe he will try and sell then, more likely if the football bubble bursts at some point.

In the meantime lets all be proud of our self sustaining model (of midtable obscurity) or just not bother being that interested, I mean he isn't, so why should we?.

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Post #502106  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:27 am 
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Had no idea Nasri ended up at West Ham...oh how low the mighty have fallen.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nasri-cried-th ... 4l_2kv0DLg


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Post #502107  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:33 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Had no idea Nasri ended up at West Ham...oh how low the mighty have fallen.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nasri-cried-th ... 4l_2kv0DLg

Well considering he’s just coming back from 18 month doping ban it is better to be at a EPL club than in the Turkish league or something.

And I suspect that since he left us his 2 premiership medals give him some consolation when he is sitting counting his money.

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Post #502108  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:21 am 
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You just know that Nasri is scoring today


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Post #502109  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:23 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Cesc Fabregas left british football this week without much comment on here so I’ll just say that I believe that he was the last truly great midfielder we have had.

We have had great midfielders like Cazorla since but nobody who literally did it week in week out like Cesc. The way he could take the weight off a pass was perfect. The bbc seem are saying he statistically created more goal scoring chances than any other player in the premiership. This wouldn’t surprise me.

Arsene was crazy not to exercise our clause to resign him and the real sadness was the way he slumped at Barca (like he was always going to) and ended up at that lot.

I agree, class player.

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Post #502110  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am 
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Rich wrote:
You just know that Nasri is scoring today

Hopefully Arnautovic will not start with all the China rumours surrounding him.

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Post #502111  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:54 am 
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Özil dropped again. It’s just crazy, what on Earth is going on.

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Post #502112  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Özil dropped again. It’s just crazy, what on Earth is going on.

Bellerin, Monreal back on the bench.
We have our 3 most senior CB today, can they contain arnautovic, Anderson and nasri? Aubameyang and Lacazette should easily have the beating of ogbonna and diop but only if we give them service and play with purpose going forward


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Post #502113  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:02 pm 
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The only conclusion on Özil is we must be literally trying to force him out of the club by not playing him now. I don’t know if they are trying to flog him to China or something to free up wages to bring other players in

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Post #502114  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:25 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
The only conclusion on Özil is we must be literally trying to force him out of the club by not playing him now. I don’t know if they are trying to flog him to China or something to free up wages to bring other players in

They maybe trying to force him to move but he has 350 big reasons to remain & If it was me I would do just as Ospina Jenkinson & Debuchy have done & just turn up to training and collect my money & check out the new car ads. What would you do?

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Post #502115  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:48 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Özil dropped again. It’s just crazy, what on Earth is going on.

I heard the announcer say he had a problem with his knee - or maybe he said 'need'.


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Post #502116  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm 
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I moved house over Christmas - been pretty busy of late.

Just had Optus cable hooked up last Tuesday and it includes the Optus Sports pack.

Watching the game on my HD projector now. 3.2 Meter picture ;-)


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Post #502117  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:58 pm 
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Some of our passing can be so sloppy and casual. That is nothing to do with the manager or the training it’s just poor footballers


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Post #502118  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Soppy play again giving West Ham encouragement.

Absolutely no link from midfield to attack. Zero creativity on the pitch


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Post #502119  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:17 pm 
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Boring football

ZZZZ

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Post #502120  Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:19 pm 
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warrior wrote:
I moved house over Christmas - been pretty busy of late.

Just had Optus cable hooked up last Tuesday and it includes the Optus Sports pack.

Watching the game on my HD projector now. 3.2 Meter picture ;-)


I’ll bet that really enhanced the whole mediocre experience of that half for you :icon_mrgreen1: :icon_mrgreen1: :icon_mrgreen1:

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