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Post #498601  Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Babu III wrote:
He ABSOLUTELY bossed the Midfield.

He is an exceptional player, in the right system.

And if the Island Monkeys in England can't see that, well...that's because most of them are monkeys.

Quite good at throwing their own sh.it around, but as for football?

Ha ha. The English thought Wenger had new ideas!

:42laughter:

I think you're right about Xhaka, Babu. One of the players I've read most utter claptrap about on this forum, although I exclude the likes of Hazuki from that observation. I'm not sure the people I don't exclude from it are all English though.

He is far from being exceptional. He wouldn't make the first 11 for any of the other top 6 clubs.

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Post #498602  Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:24 pm 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I think you're right about Xhaka, Babu. One of the players I've read most utter claptrap about on this forum, although I exclude the likes of Hazuki from that observation. I'm not sure the people I don't exclude from it are all English though.

He is far from being exceptional. He wouldn't make the first 11 for any of the other top 6 clubs.

In the right system he would. Dyer has played plenty of games in midfield for Tottenham and I think Xhaka is comfortably better than him.


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Post #498603  Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:01 pm 
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For anyone who follows the Arsenal youth players more than I do, how good is Smith-Rowe? He’s scored again for the U21 team tonight.

Every year there seems to be a mini break through in pre season from a young player, but so few break through to establish themselves in the first team.

Smith-Rowe is in probably the toughest position along with CB for a young player to make it at a top team. Players in his position and often young strikers have to forge their way in to the first team by playing out wide


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Post #498604  Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
dec wrote:
He is far from being exceptional. He wouldn't make the first 11 for any of the other top 6 clubs.

In the right system he would. Dyer has played plenty of games in midfield for Tottenham and I think Xhaka is comfortably better than him.

What is the right system? And what is even his best position? It's definitely not defensive midfielder (a role that Dier is far superior at). It's not box to box midfielder as he doesn't have the pace or athleticism. Lomekian has suggested a Pirlo type role but he is simply miles away from being that good. Can he play a position like Eriksen or David Silva? Not to their level. So a sort of neat and tidy continuity player?

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Post #498605  Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:06 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Babu III wrote:

He is an exceptional player, in the right system.

Hmmm ........ well if he is this reincarnated Roy Keane / Patrick Vieira combo ....how come the Arsenal midfield gets steamrolled more often than not .

Even in the perfect system he is not going to be that good. Even Keane and Vieira weren't as good as this player you're hoping for.

Not even sure the midfield gets steamrolled, I think it's the defence and attack that are not good enough.
We've always got good possession, it's not scoring enough and letting in too many.

I would play Torreira as the defensive midfielder, and Ramsey and Xhaka in front of him.


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Post #498606  Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:09 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
One of the things that attracted me to the EPL in particular was the atmosphere and the chants. Sometimes I'd hear some chants at the pub but it was never the same obviously. When I went to my first Arsenal match I strained to hear every chant.

One of the things that didn't attract me to American Football was how mental it is...



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Post #498607  Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:01 pm 
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American football training is completely nuts. We were doing this as 10 year olds. Called "bull in the ring", the players form a circle, someone is chosen to be in the middle, the coaches call out a players number and you have to charge the guy in the ring at full speed. The coach often tries to call a player behind you and if you are late reacting..well, it's not pretty. Also, the coach sometimes is sadistic (or more sadistic) and tries to toughen up a weak player by calling a number of a player much bigger. I hated this drill because I was small for a 10 year old. The coach should be calling players of equal size but my coach didn't like me and would call bigger players. Luckily I was popular and they took it easy on me. I was also a running back, with pace and was needed. I broke my ankle in high school doing a similar type of drill. A lineman (one of the big guys) fell over one of my legs and sat on my ankle. Never really healed right. To this day, decades later I can tell you when its going to rain or snow.

There is a reason why we are so militaristic, we start those kinds of tendencies early.



Last edited by warrior on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #498608  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:55 am 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
In the right system he would. Dyer has played plenty of games in midfield for Tottenham and I think Xhaka is comfortably better than him.

What is the right system? And what is even his best position? It's definitely not defensive midfielder (a role that Dier is far superior at). It's not box to box midfielder as he doesn't have the pace or athleticism. Lomekian has suggested a Pirlo type role but he is simply miles away from being that good. Can he play a position like Eriksen or David Silva? Not to their level. So a sort of neat and tidy continuity player?

You seem quite sniffy about being neat and tidy or a continuity player. Comparing him to Pirlo is about as useful as comparing him to Vieira or Keane. There are very few as good as Pirlo in his role. If Xhaka isn't, that doesn't mean he can't do a good job for Arsenal. Koscielny was never as good as Adams or Campbell but was still a very fine player, even though I think he now needs replacing. Mkhitaryian isn't as good as Brady but will, I expect, be a fine signing. I'd say the same of Aubameyang even though he's not as good as Henry.

Xhaka isn't a defensive midfielder, so is it fair to criticise him when he was asked to play there? Dier couldn't play Xhaka's continuity game, so would it be fair to moan about him there? Babu mentioned a midfield of Torreira, Xhaka and Ramsey working. My guess is that this may well be Ramsey's last season due to his contract situation. But I can see Torreira, Xhaka and Guendouzi also working.


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Post #498609  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:27 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
American football training is completely nuts. We were doing this as 10 year olds. Called "bull in the ring", the players form a circle, someone is chosen to be in the middle, the coaches call out a players number and you have to charge the guy in the ring at full speed. The coach often tries to call a player behind you and if you are late reacting..well, it's not pretty. Also, the coach sometimes is sadistic (or more sadistic) and tries to toughen up a weak player by calling a number of a player much bigger. I hated this drill because I was small for a 10 year old. The coach should be calling players of equal size but my coach didn't like me and would call bigger players. Luckily I was popular and they took it easy on me. I was also a running back, with pace and was needed. I broke my ankle in high school doing a similar type of drill. A lineman (one of the big guys) fell over one of my legs and sat on my ankle. Never really healed right. To this day, decades later I can tell you when its going to rain or snow.

There is a reason why we are so militaristic, we start those kinds of tendencies early.

I watched a few clips, and read the comments.
Seems to be 2 posting styles - either - AmericaFuckYeah, that was great, good memories, or OMG - stop this dangerous sport right now, let's all have no contact sports and the World will be a better place.

I am in the first group, but can also understand the Gaylords in the second group.

And when I say "understand" I mean I am very happy that there are those "other people" on the Planet, because it means it is easier for me to keep my Alpha Status even though I'm getting on a bit.

Youth of today - a bunch of little snowflakes.

Even if you got a thousand snowflakes and compressed them together it wouldn't form a snowball now. It would just melt and the resulting puddle would have a slight tinge of yellow.

I'm all for a bit of physicality in your development - after all, it didn't do you or me any harm, did it.*





*did it?


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Post #498610  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Xhaka isn't a defensive midfielder, so is it fair to criticise him when he was asked to play there? Dier couldn't play Xhaka's continuity game, so would it be fair to moan about him there? Babu mentioned a midfield of Torreira, Xhaka and Ramsey working. My guess is that this may well be Ramsey's last season due to his contract situation. But I can see Torreira, Xhaka and Guendouzi also working.

I had to use Ramsey as the example, but I've never been 100% convinced by him. He still has that Wenger-stench about him.
Guendouzi - possibly could gel with Torreira and Xhaka.

What we need - first of all though - is to sort out the last line of defence and the line in front of that.

Playing a mencap in Goal is all very PC, etc., but is not helping.
Having the Keystone Cops in front of him creates a level playing field for the opposition, which although perfect for the PC/No conflict/Sport isn't about competition loonies, is not helping us ( and particularly Xhaka ) very much at all either.


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Post #498611  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:42 am 
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You had ample opportunity to 'toughen up' in the states...lol.
Dodge ball...sadistic PE teachers is a cliche. A lot of them former marines. Girls weren't immune either. Girls would often feign cramps, etc, and many a PE teacher sent them to the nurse for a note knowing they probably didn't even have their first period yet. Girls hated dodge ball because it was co-ed and nerdish, bookish girls got beaned in the head. Dodge ball was revenge time. The class bully was either doing most of the hitting or getting hit. No middle ground. I've seen teammates of class bullies get out of the way and give the other side free reign on him..haha.

What makes these things far worse these days in the era of snowflakes (per you Babu) is that the students are much, much bigger. Did you see LeBron James in HS? There is a reason he could go straight to pros and handle the physicality. 2 or 3 generations of families eating steroid enriched meat has produced some man-boys.

HS football is now big business. These kids are huge, quick as cats and strong as oxes.


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Post #498612  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:57 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
You had ample opportunity to 'toughen up' in the states...lol.
Dodge ball...sadistic PE teachers is a cliche. A lot of them former marines. Girls weren't immune either. Girls would often feign cramps, etc, and many a PE teacher sent them to the nurse for a note knowing they probably didn't even have their first period yet. Girls hated dodge ball because it was co-ed and nerdish, bookish girls got beaned in the head. Dodge ball was revenge time. The class bully was either doing most of the hitting or getting hit. No middle ground. I've seen teammates of class bullies get out of the way and give the other side free reign on him..haha.

What makes these things far worse these days in the era of snowflakes (per you Babu) is that the students are much, much bigger. Did you see LeBron James in HS? There is a reason he could go straight to pros and handle the physicality. 2 or 3 generations of families eating steroid enriched meat has produced some man-boys.

HS football is now big business. These kids are huge, quick as cats and strong as oxes.

Despite all this you’re still *%^@ at football.


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Post #498613  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:26 pm 
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I can see how someone could make that a possibility but I don't see Gazidis doing that to the club. Maybe its in him. I don't know the man obviously but I have to think he has a certain amount of loyalty.

https://www.football-italia.net/127905/ ... msey-milan


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Post #498614  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:10 pm 
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All points bulletin out for Hodd. Where have you been hiding? Big changes at The Arsenal. Emery's era has begun and not a peep. Report in!


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Post #498615  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Babu mentioned a midfield of Torreira, Xhaka and Ramsey working. My guess is that this may well be Ramsey's last season due to his contract situation. But I can see Torreira, Xhaka and Guendouzi also working.


Emery is using Ramsey further forward. I would like to see a midfield combo of Xhaka, Torreira, and Guendouzi. Should make us a bit more solid defensively. Guendouzi could be the new Ray Parlour.


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Post #498616  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
Emery is using Ramsey further forward. I would like to see a midfield combo of Xhaka, Torreira, and Guendouzi. Should make us a bit more solid defensively. Guendouzi could be the new Ray Parlour.

I'd say Guendouzi is technically a lot more gifted than Parlour.


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Post #498617  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Emery is using Ramsey further forward. I would like to see a midfield combo of Xhaka, Torreira, and Guendouzi. Should make us a bit more solid defensively. Guendouzi could be the new Ray Parlour.

I'd say Guendouzi is technically a lot more gifted than Parlour.

Wot? The Romford Pele? Surely not. :42laughter:

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Post #498618  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:14 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
HS football is now big business. These kids are huge, quick as cats and strong as oxes.

Despite all this you’re still *%^@ at football.

Football, or Association Football, or Soccer, is a girls game over there.
The women are...hmmm...oh yes, World Champions.
:5encouragement: USA USA USA :5encouragement:


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Post #498619  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:22 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I'd say Guendouzi is technically a lot more gifted than Parlour.

Wot? The Romford Pele? Surely not. :42laughter:

I see Parlour as a club legend but not that technically gifted.


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Post #498620  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:47 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
All points bulletin out for Hodd. Where have you been hiding? Big changes at The Arsenal. Emery's era has begun and not a peep. Report in!

Still here :12hello-bye:
Lots going on - all positive from what I’ve Seen.

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Post #498621  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:14 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
dec wrote:
What is the right system? And what is even his best position? It's definitely not defensive midfielder (a role that Dier is far superior at). It's not box to box midfielder as he doesn't have the pace or athleticism. Lomekian has suggested a Pirlo type role but he is simply miles away from being that good. Can he play a position like Eriksen or David Silva? Not to their level. So a sort of neat and tidy continuity player?

You seem quite sniffy about being neat and tidy or a continuity player. Comparing him to Pirlo is about as useful as comparing him to Vieira or Keane. There are very few as good as Pirlo in his role. If Xhaka isn't, that doesn't mean he can't do a good job for Arsenal. Koscielny was never as good as Adams or Campbell but was still a very fine player, even though I think he now needs replacing. Mkhitaryian isn't as good as Brady but will, I expect, be a fine signing. I'd say the same of Aubameyang even though he's not as good as Henry.

Xhaka isn't a defensive midfielder, so is it fair to criticise him when he was asked to play there? Dier couldn't play Xhaka's continuity game, so would it be fair to moan about him there? Babu mentioned a midfield of Torreira, Xhaka and Ramsey working. My guess is that this may well be Ramsey's last season due to his contract situation. But I can see Torreira, Xhaka and Guendouzi also working.

I'm not the one labelling him exceptional so I'm certainly not expecting anything like Pirlo or Brady levels from him. Actually, I don't expect much of him at all. He's a central midfielder with poor discipline, poor defensive abilities and a decent passing range when not under pressure.

Also, for what it's worth, I think Mkhitaryan has been disappointing. He looks like a pure fair-weather player and the biggest thing going for him so far is that Sanchez has been atrocious at Utd.

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Post #498622  Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:47 pm 
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You just strike me as taking every opportunity to moan about him. You may well deny it but I almost get the impression you simply don't like him. Perfectly normal for fans of any club regarding the occasional player, even when it's not based on their quality. I feel Xhaka is better than some give him credit for, and that 'some' includes you.


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Post #498623  Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:13 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Emery is using Ramsey further forward. I would like to see a midfield combo of Xhaka, Torreira, and Guendouzi. Should make us a bit more solid defensively. Guendouzi could be the new Ray Parlour.

I'd say Guendouzi is technically a lot more gifted than Parlour.


I agree. But Parlour was effective for us at right midfield. Have we properly replaced him?


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Post #498624  Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:50 am 
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Weighing in on the Xhaka debate, I rate him 5.5/10. Good enough to be a key player in teams not challenging for major honours. But, not near good enough to be a key player (not even substitute), in a top honours challenging team. I think if he fundamentally change his attitude towards the game, he will improve exponentially. By that, I mean to give his game more urgency and to cut out his casual passes (which had led to quite a number of calamitous defending by the defenders or goals). My view of him is bias because he has both proven his worth and his weakness, albeit the end result from his weakness is more telling.

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Post #498625  Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Weighing in on the Xhaka debate, I rate him 5.5/10. Good enough to be a key player in teams not challenging for major honours. But, not near good enough to be a key player (not even substitute), in a top honours challenging team. I think if he fundamentally change his attitude towards the game, he will improve exponentially. By that, I mean to give his game more urgency and to cut out his casual passes (which had led to quite a number of calamitous defending by the defenders or goals). My view of him is bias because he has both proven his worth and his weakness, albeit the end result from his weakness is more telling.

Maybe a 5.5/10 in his current position.

I think the casual passes and the lacking urgency is still a problem from the Wengker times...with his tippy-tappy-tikki-takki-what-the-fuki tactics. No-one forward is making any runs, ball gets passed from the left to right and back again, etc., etc.

Playing him further back, with a gaping hole in the middle that used to be our strength ( good CB's, a defensive system, and a good keeper ) doesn't help either.

The squad at the moment is unbalanced, and we have to fill round holes with square pegs.

Xhaka doesn't have to be THE SUPERSTAR, but in a TEAM he would be invaluable, keeping the ball moving, a great left foot, strong and not afraid of a challenge.

Football is a TEAM sport, not a collection of individuals.
Our "team" is non-existent. As yet.
Xhaka would be a vital ingredient in a team.


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Post #498626  Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Once Kos comes back the defense will be a bit more steady. That's our weakness, the defense and secondarily team defense. We are a very decent side once that is resolved.

We are visibly behind City, Liverpool and Tottenham. Chelsea and Man Utd are better but reachable. I have afith in Emery. I'm still surprised at how impatient some fans are.


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Post #498627  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:02 am 
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Babu III wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Weighing in on the Xhaka debate, I rate him 5.5/10. Good enough to be a key player in teams not challenging for major honours. But, not near good enough to be a key player (not even substitute), in a top honours challenging team. I think if he fundamentally change his attitude towards the game, he will improve exponentially. By that, I mean to give his game more urgency and to cut out his casual passes (which had led to quite a number of calamitous defending by the defenders or goals). My view of him is bias because he has both proven his worth and his weakness, albeit the end result from his weakness is more telling.

Maybe a 5.5/10 in his current position.

I think the casual passes and the lacking urgency is still a problem from the Wengker times...with his tippy-tappy-tikki-takki-what-the-fuki tactics. No-one forward is making any runs, ball gets passed from the left to right and back again, etc., etc.

Playing him further back, with a gaping hole in the middle that used to be our strength ( good CB's, a defensive system, and a good keeper ) doesn't help either.

The squad at the moment is unbalanced, and we have to fill round holes with square pegs.

Xhaka doesn't have to be THE SUPERSTAR, but in a TEAM he would be invaluable, keeping the ball moving, a great left foot, strong and not afraid of a challenge.

Football is a TEAM sport, not a collection of individuals.
Our "team" is non-existent. As yet.
Xhaka would be a vital ingredient in a team.


Good points mentioned. I hope Xhaka improves his urgency soon.

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Post #498628  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:20 am 
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I like Xhaka, flaws and all. What I particularly like about him is that he gives precisely zero *%^@* about who hes going up against, he isnt a bottler, he doesnt back down, and hes a unit. As a result Im not looking at Fellaini and Matic at Utd, for example, and thinking theyre just gonna squash us. Hes not fussed, so neither am I.

Ive had quite enough of us being pushed around physically and ld rather have a few more Xhakas in the team than any more mhikis and mesuts and other assorted pussies who disappear when it gets a bit tasty.

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Post #498629  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:35 am 
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Bernard wrote:
I see Parlour as a club legend but not that technically gifted.

Me too.

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Post #498630  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:38 am 
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Pompey Gooner wrote:
Ive had quite enough of us being pushed around physically and ld rather have a few more Xhakas in the team than any more mhikis and mesuts and other assorted pussies who disappear when it gets a bit tasty.

I think you make some good points there.


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Post #498631  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:31 am 
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Dear God ... the vaunted All Blacks are playing like sh^^%$%$ t .

. an idiot of throw in gifts them 7 points , kicking away possession , dropping the f**&& ball ..... not kicking the ball out after the half time siren gifts them another 3 . :36angers:

meanwhile South Africa are playing really well .


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Post #498632  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:29 am 
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Well done South Africa .... we were awful ....... Beauden Barrett missed three easy conversions


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Post #498633  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:36 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Well done South Africa .... we were awful ....... Beauden Barrett missed three easy conversions

Why didn't they just go for the drop goal? It was there for the taking.

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Post #498634  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:39 am 
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Glad to see the Bokke win. Rugby in the south needed it.

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Post #498635  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:54 am 
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Pompey Gooner wrote:
I like Xhaka, flaws and all. What I particularly like about him is that he gives precisely zero *%^@* about who hes going up against, he isnt a bottler, he doesnt back down, and hes a unit. As a result Im not looking at Fellaini and Matic at Utd, for example, and thinking theyre just gonna squash us. Hes not fussed, so neither am I.

Ive had quite enough of us being pushed around physically and ld rather have a few more Xhakas in the team than any more mhikis and mesuts and other assorted pussies who disappear when it gets a bit tasty.


I know what you mean and he does like to put his foot in but goodness me he’s so *%^@*** lazy he barely wants to track back and has no sense of danger. It makes him even more of a liability than a placid passing type player like Denilson or Arteta

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Post #498636  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:57 am 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I think you're right about Xhaka, Babu. One of the players I've read most utter claptrap about on this forum, although I exclude the likes of Hazuki from that observation. I'm not sure the people I don't exclude from it are all English though.

He is far from being exceptional. He wouldn't make the first 11 for any of the other top 6 clubs.


I think this is the accurate analysis for Xhaka. He should be playing for someone like Newcastle or Everton

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Post #498637  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:42 pm 
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What does Torreira have to do to get picked ?

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Post #498638  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Same line-up as against Cardiff. Another away win? Think it makes sense to stick to a winning team.


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Post #498639  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Xhaka !


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Post #498640  Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Xhaka earns his wages.....


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