Fixtures Wednesday September 26th - Brentford - Emirates Stadium - Carabao Cup - 7:45 Pm

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Post #497001  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Once England tired and the pressing stopped, the extra quality in the Croatian engine we discussed earlier shone through. To give them credit they stepped it up, pushed up higher and had England on the rack...And they had been through two 120 minutes in a week.

A few people here and elsewhere have mentioned that Croatia have had two lots of extra time and have an older team, so should have had less energy tonight. But England appeared to tire first. After the quarter-final I mentioned Bilic said that Croatia's tough match, which they obviously got through, might give them more of a lift or buzz (or whatever words he used) than England's stroll in the park against Sweden might have given them.

Perhaps Bilic was right?


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Post #497002  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Daz wrote:
DHD wrote:

Perhaps I’ll give you the casual reference to Ingerland but that classist nonsense is inherited from my father and grandfather, both of whom put Arsenal before England - in football terms of course.


Sorry, DHD, but the international football you decry has provided fantastic entertainment these last few weeks way beyond the normal reach of football. Families have sat together and watched and enjoyed some classic matches where the whole thing hasn't been distorted by money. There has been so much fun and entertainment all round. A young England team has done much better than expected, not just because they faced weak opposition but because they had a decent, progressive, and charming manager who encouraged some adventure and team spirit.

So to come on at the end and moan about international football and say the best thing we did was lose to Belgium is just a bit...well sour and cynical are the only two words that really spring to mind.


I don’t decry international football. I just don’t share its appeal. Trust me, I’m not alone.

If you and others do get it - fair enough, but we’re not all like that.


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Post #497003  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:27 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Daz wrote:

Sorry, DHD, but the international football you decry has provided fantastic entertainment these last few weeks way beyond the normal reach of football. Families have sat together and watched and enjoyed some classic matches where the whole thing hasn't been distorted by money. There has been so much fun and entertainment all round. A young England team has done much better than expected, not just because they faced weak opposition but because they had a decent, progressive, and charming manager who encouraged some adventure and team spirit.

So to come on at the end and moan about international football and say the best thing we did was lose to Belgium is just a bit...well sour and cynical are the only two words that really spring to mind.


I don’t decry international football. I just don’t share its appeal. Trust me, I’m not alone.

If you and others do get it - fair enough, but we’re not all like that.


I get it, I just think its spectacularly joyless and bit weird - if you like football what was there NOT to like in almost all of Belgium's games especially Japan.

I watched the kids at my daughter's school - girls and boys alike - babbling about who was who in the sweepstake and it was just fun in a way that I am afraid the Premier League would struggle to emulate.

But I do get it, others have said the same as you, I remember similar discussions with EEG, for the life of me I cannot understand the reason for such an unnecessary, po-faced, faintly self-regarding, snobbishness.


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Post #497004  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:30 pm 
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I can only congratulate England on a mammoth effort to get to a semi-final. Yes, the route to the semi was possibly as easy as it has ever been in a modern day World Cup and yes the cards may never fall in the favour in such a way again but they still played with great energy and no one can question their effort or commitment.

England are not the best team in the tournament and really need some creative central midfielders but they gave it their best shot and reached the last four which is as good as anyone could have hoped for at the start of the tournament.

So well done.


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Post #497005  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:36 pm 
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Daz wrote:
DHD wrote:

I don’t decry international football. I just don’t share its appeal. Trust me, I’m not alone.

If you and others do get it - fair enough, but we’re not all like that.


I get it, I just think its spectacularly joyless and bit weird - if you like football what was there NOT to like in almost all of Belgium's games especially Japan.

I watched the kids at my daughter's school - girls and boys alike - babbling about who was who in the sweepstake and it was just fun in a way that I am afraid the Premier League would struggle to emulate.

But I do get it, others have said the same as you, I remember similar discussions with EEG, for the life of me I cannot understand the reason for such an unnecessary, po-faced, faintly self-regarding, snobbishness.


But it isn’t that at all. You may charactarise my position as you wish but in essence, it’s just a different view from yours - which by your admission, you don’t understand.


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Post #497006  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:52 pm 
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.

Ahhh so the fairy tale comes to an end , I thought the way the draw panned out ; this was England's year .

Taking off Sterling I thought a mistake in the limited time I've watched he seemed more than usual to have " the bit between his teeth ".

I think why a lot of English fans on here are so dismissive of the team is as I said before the tribal nature of English soccer .

Most fans would want the best for their own club in front of the country .

In NZ it's the reverse , we like our provincial teams but the All Blacks take precedence . We don't give a sh*t who hails from where , once the black shirt is donned we want fhe best to happen .

I'm not English [ thank God ] but I genuinely dislike Walker , Rose , Young , Alli and I'm not particularly enamoured with Vardy , Pickford , Henderson and Linegaard ... so them having dummy group sex in the middle of the pitch if they'd won wouldn't have been pleasant .

Tottenham wins the world cup would have been the chant at the Lane .


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Post #497007  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Niall wrote:
Once England tired and the pressing stopped, the extra quality in the Croatian engine we discussed earlier shone through. To give them credit they stepped it up, pushed up higher and had England on the rack...And they had been through two 120 minutes in a week.

A few people here and elsewhere have mentioned that Croatia have had two lots of extra time and have an older team, so should have had less energy tonight. But England appeared to tire first. After the quarter-final I mentioned Bilic said that Croatia's tough match, which they obviously got through, might give them more of a lift or buzz (or whatever words he used) than England's stroll in the park against Sweden might have given them.

Perhaps Bilic was right?

I think it was more to do with what Croatia did with the ball. They were far more composed in possession in the second half, largely due to having a wonderful footballer in the middle of the pitch. England, in contrast, kept giving it away. Southgate has had a fine tournament, but I was baffled by the substitution of Dier for Henderson. England had no control whatsoever in midfield after that.

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Post #497008  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:02 pm 
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The two presenters on SSN wearing waistcoats a al Southgate. Sweet Jesus.....

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Post #497009  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 pm 
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.
I do wonder about the absurdity of having a play off to determine who is third or fourth .... who gives a sh**t .

After the trauma of today's result , who in the England camp would want to hang around and play another game .


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Post #497010  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:14 pm 
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Spuds bottle it again.......

Runs for cover.......

:1laughter:


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Post #497011  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:15 pm 
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dec wrote:
The two presenters on SSN wearing waistcoats a al Southgate. Sweet Jesus.....


:laughing7: .... I expected him to pull out a pocketwatch to check on time left to play .


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Post #497012  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:29 pm 
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I never expect England to win the world cup or even get close to the final so sad though it is to lose the semi final I think we did well to get there with the young team that was selected. The manager did a fantastic job all in all - he even got Alli and Young to give up their diving!
Trippier? What can I say? He proved me wrong by scoring direct from a free kick today after I questioned why he was given the 'Beckham'role - I don't even remember seeing him play before the world cup! Don't really care who wins the cup now but I suspect it will be France, again! Meanwhile its just another month to go before we see the new Arsenal team.

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Post #497013  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:32 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
.
I do wonder about the absurdity of having a play off to determine who is third or fourth .... who gives a sh**t .

After the trauma of today's result , who in the England camp would want to hang around and play another game .


Maybe some of the those who just came along for the ride like Welbeck and a few of the other bench warmers?

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Post #497014  Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:12 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Most fans would want the best for their own club in front of the country .

There will be exceptions but generally I think you're right. The Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea fans I've discussed this with would rather see their club win something than England. Everyone knows I support Germany in international football. I'd rather Arsenal win the League Cup than Germany win the World Cup.

I wonder if that's linked to the England flags you see at games with an obvious club affiliation often being smaller clubs.


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Post #497015  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:43 am 
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France will be the bookmaker's over whelming favourite to win the Final. I'll be rooting for Croatia though. Give the World Cup to another country.

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Post #497016  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:10 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
.

Ahhh so the fairy tale comes to an end , I thought the way the draw panned out ; this was England's year .

Taking off Sterling I thought a mistake in the limited time I've watched he seemed more than usual to have " the bit between his teeth ".

I think why a lot of English fans on here are so dismissive of the team is as I said before the tribal nature of English soccer .

Most fans would want the best for their own club in front of the country .

In NZ it's the reverse , we like our provincial teams but the All Blacks take precedence . We don't give a sh*t who hails from where , once the black shirt is donned we want fhe best to happen .

I'm not English [ thank God ] but I genuinely dislike Walker , Rose , Young , Alli and I'm not particularly enamoured with Vardy , Pickford , Henderson and Linegaard ... so them having dummy group sex in the middle of the pitch if they'd won wouldn't have been pleasant .

Tottenham wins the world cup would have been the chant at the Lane .


What has led you to take a disliking to Walker, rose or Young. I can’t recall the 3 of them performing arsenal related crimes so it must be because you don’t like their faces or something because Walker had a decent tournament.

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Post #497017  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:13 am 
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Ian Wright owned Roy Keane on tv last night. Keane was talking about English complacency and arrogance and Wright was just saying we were having a laugh. Enjoyed wright at this World Cup.

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Post #497018  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:25 am 
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DHD wrote:
Well played Croatia.

We have been beaten by a very limited team - even more limited than us. Our forwards have had no spark or presence and our midfield was consistently passive and sterile. If we’d been in the other side of the draw, we’d have gone home a while ago.

The biggest laugh is that Kane may end up with the golden boot. Ha! Played like a zombie in most games, as did ‘world class’ Ali.

By a distance, our finest achievement in this competition was to lose to Belgium.

Yes I’ll put this down to you being sour about the result dude.

Croatia aren’t poor, those midfielders can find 60yard passes in their sleep.

Agree Kane had a bad game and I see similarities in the way Ali and Özil play that frustrate.

It’s knock out football which is a different type to league football and I think that’s why Wenger always failed in the champions league. I genuinely don’t think it’s easy

Oh well Arsenal are back in a few weeks and the few people who were unable to find a place in their head to enjoy this little escapade for a few weeks will be able to sleep easier as we stumble to a 4th to 6th place finish. Awesome

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Post #497019  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:57 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
.



I'm not English [ thank God ] but I genuinely dislike Walker , Rose , Young , Alli and I'm not particularly enamoured with Vardy , Pickford , Henderson and Linegaard ... so them having dummy group sex in the middle of the pitch if they'd won wouldn't have been pleasant .

Tottenham wins the world cup would have been the chant at the Lane .


What has led you to take a disliking to Walker, rose or Young. I can’t recall the 3 of them performing arsenal related crimes so it must be because you don’t like their faces or something because Walker had a decent tournament.

Young a diving w**&&% Walker is a pug ugly ex Spurs toss pot , Rose hails from the same soakhole and dives as well .

Thinking on I don't hold any major grudges against them it's just having so many Spurs players on show I didn't want them to have anything to crow about .
Having said all this I would have preferred as a spectacle an England France final .

Vardy , Sterling , Kane on all together from 60 minutes you would have won that .


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Post #497020  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:16 am 
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Does anybody have a spare ticket for the Man City game? Pretty please.


I'd be interested in a season ticket if anyone has a spare and length of time as long as it's a side view I'm not a fan of the ends.


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Post #497021  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:27 am 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Most fans would want the best for their own club in front of the country .

There will be exceptions but generally I think you're right. The Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea fans I've discussed this with would rather see their club win something than England. Everyone knows I support Germany in international football. I'd rather Arsenal win the League Cup than Germany win the World Cup.

I wonder if that's linked to the England flags you see at games with an obvious club affiliation often being smaller clubs.


Ignoring the German thing which is plain weird

The majority of us are Arsenal fans foremost but if you are english, love football and live in England, support an English football club, have mates and family who are English yet are unable to cheer the England team on I really don’t get that at all. Surely you can see the enjoyment and togetherness it brings. If nothing else it’s good for a few pints and laughs with mates.

If you are from another home nation and want England to do badly because of our imperialist past and would prefer to support great countries like Germany, Croatia or Russia I really don’t know what to say because your probably a narcissist or village idiot.

Personally i would take an England World Cup win over arsenal winning a European cup, just. I’m not a nationalist at all and actually think rampant nationalism is as dangerous as religion in some cases. just don’t get it, few weeks of enjoyment. If nothing else it’s worth having a laugh at drunken adults falling through bus shelters surely

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Post #497022  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:54 am 
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England obviously the better side for the first half and a chunk of the second half. However, even they had been up 2-0, I still fancied Croatia to make a game of it and equalize because the English players would have relaxed.

Croatia looked the poorest I've seen them but it was good enough because England just couldn't put the game away. The header off the line nothwithstanding.

France should be the big favorites but if they don't score in the first half it could be tough. Croatia adapts to the side in their matches. They are a bit dirty and rough but it gets the job done. I am predicting a 3-0 or 3-1 final for France. We may even see a red card for Croatia. The referees are not going to stand for cynical fouling when the eyes of the world are on them. They will let them play up to a point. That point is going to be tighter in a game of this magnitude.

The 3rd place game will be a game of who is sulking the least. Right now its Belgium from the sour grapes quotes I've been reading about their match against France.


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Post #497023  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:39 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
France will be the bookmaker's over whelming favourite to win the Final. I'll be rooting for Croatia though. Give the World Cup to another country.

Croatia's resilience is remarkable. One would have thought that they would have suffered with yet another extra time, yet the likes of Mandzukic, Perisic, and Modric just got stronger and stronger as the game wore on.

I was very impressed with their game management, the way they coped with being a goal down so early and with England's first half display. They drew England's sting and then gradually ratcheted it up.

They are an excellent tournament team and France will have their work cut out.

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Post #497024  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:43 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
There will be exceptions but generally I think you're right. The Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea fans I've discussed this with would rather see their club win something than England. Everyone knows I support Germany in international football. I'd rather Arsenal win the League Cup than Germany win the World Cup.

I wonder if that's linked to the England flags you see at games with an obvious club affiliation often being smaller clubs.


Ignoring the German thing which is plain weird

The majority of us are Arsenal fans foremost but if you are english, love football and live in England, support an English football club, have mates and family who are English yet are unable to cheer the England team on I really don’t get that at all. Surely you can see the enjoyment and togetherness it brings. If nothing else it’s good for a few pints and laughs with mates.

If you are from another home nation and want England to do badly because of our imperialist past and would prefer to support great countries like Germany, Croatia or Russia I really don’t know what to say because your probably a narcissist or village idiot.

Personally i would take an England World Cup win over arsenal winning a European cup, just. I’m not a nationalist at all and actually think rampant nationalism is as dangerous as religion in some cases. just don’t get it, few weeks of enjoyment. If nothing else it’s worth having a laugh at drunken adults falling through bus shelters surely

Indeed. The world cup should, and mostly does, represent the good side of nationalism/patriotism and internationalism (i.e. the countries of the world getting together and putting on a great show). Not supporting one's national team fully because of sectarianism or because one thinks the quality of the soccer is so-so does seem like cutting off one's nose ...

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Post #497025  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:35 am 
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One of the main reasons we are so *%^@** up as a country is that we make such a big deal over something other countries find relatively easy - supporting the national side at football.

On every side there are morons - The Sun's grisly 'comedy' xenophobia, the gap-year lefties hoping we lose to atone for the Boxer rebellion, fashionistas who think that supporting Peru is hip, or just weirdo contrarians like Bernard.

As far as the club thing goes I have never ever understood this. It is not as if there are football police going around shouting "CLUB OR COUNTRY ONE CHOICE OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE". The problem with the club football uber alles fanatics is they are such tremendous killjoys, feeling the need in the middle of international tournaments to pronounce their superiority over the less discerning infants gurgling at trinkets. They are like parents who actually enjoy pointing out the logistical difficulties for a fat old man in getting down the chimney at Christmas, or new recruits to the college Vegan Society (I admit I have been guilty of a variant of this!) or those terrible bores who think that everybody is desperate to hear the many sophisticated reasons why they don't have a telly. Fine. We get it. You've never heard of Love Island. Enjoy reading the collected works of Trollope, perusing The Week for the latest on the Customs Union, and listening to "Oh goodness me, I believe that's a comma!" on Radio 4. This rather odd disdain for the international game in general is nearly always accompanied by a lofty sneering at their own team as if this somehow PROVES their elevated connoisseur status; you can just see Bernard prissily sniffing the cork and saying "Oh no I am sorry take it back, that is England, I would lief as drink sauvignon blanc my good sir". You can almost touch his sense of self-worth when he bangs on about his great childhood moral choice.

I find it strange in the case of otherwise intelligent sporting people like DHD (unless his passion for West Ham's new acquisition, the easily-breakable and often substandard Wilshere, is so great that he is blinded to everything) because while international friendlies are often dull and meaningless, World Cups are often joyful and funny affairs, and most of us have our lives marked out by these four yearly contests with their heroes and villains. They speak back to our childhoods and the glamorous names from overseas like Cruyff and Beckenbaueur, those famous sides like Brazil and Italy and Holland. Or smaller sides like Cameroon and Roger Milla. Gazza's tears, Lineker sh1%%&ng himself, Peter Beardsley setting the stage for Luka Modric in the best-looking player contest. So many brilliant memories. I watched my own children having theirs formed by this years fantastic tournament. And they talked about Japan and South Korea and Morocco as well as Brazil and Belgium and Germany. They cheered on Iran against Spain. They brought me stories about Japan tidying up their dressing room. It was bloody great. Why on earth people feel the need to sniff at that because it isn't some bloated money-distorted borefest involving Mourinho and Conte snarling at each other is beyond me. Each to their own but if you said that about - say - grouse-shooting or Formula One I would nod politely* while filing you under idiot.

Championship grafters and La Liga galaticos walk out side by side. Ronaldo can sign for Juventus but not for Brazil. It's pretty much the one competitive space in football the moneymen haven't totally killed.

*as much so as possible given that it doesn't come naturally to me of course...


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Post #497026  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:28 am 
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Here's Irvine Welsh as prime example of why it's wrong for England fans to enjoy themselves although I admit it IS a surprise to me that we ended up beating Paraguay while playing Panama.


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Post #497027  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:38 am 
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Yes I mean in essence Welsh is right but you can only beat what’s in front of you and England did beat Columbia not draw. If we lost on penalties to the Germans and Co Down the years then we won that game.

I mean this clip of Wrighty owning Keane sums it up for me. *%^@*** hell england fans aren’t allowed even to have a laugh without being bandied arrogant.

https://youtu.be/Oaz4te3sqxQ

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Post #497028  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:39 am 
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England should have won it last night in the first half. I thought Southgate made a mistake sticking with Alli, he was poor all the way through the tournament. And Stones was shocking for the winner...


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Post #497029  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:40 am 
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Didn’t beat Colombia...


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Post #497030  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:49 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Yes I mean in essence Welsh is right but you can only beat what’s in front of you


Yeah shame Paraguay weren't.

Genuinely, the obsession about England being arrogant is more virulent than avian flu. If you say you think Croatia might be tired ARROGANT. If you discuss the route to the final ARROGANT. It's absolutely fine to be a team of cheating, diving thugs with backward fans who ruin the atmosphere by incessant whistling just as long as you're not ARROGANT like the English with their beer tents and their ARROGANT jokes about waistcoats and the lumpen ARROGANT way they elongate the name of their country to make it scan a little better in a song.

I mean when Dejan Loveren demands respect from the ARROGANT English as he is one of the best defenders in the world that's NOT ARROGANT AT ALL of course.


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Post #497031  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:49 am 
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John wrote:
Didn’t beat Colombia...


Yeah we did. On penalties.


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Post #497032  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:50 am 
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John wrote:
I thought Southgate made a mistake sticking with Alli, .


Biggest error - he was next to useless. Pure reputation.


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Post #497033  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:50 am 
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Daz wrote:
John wrote:
Didn’t beat Colombia...


Yeah we did. On penalties.

Didn’t win the match is what I meant


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Post #497034  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:56 am 
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Daz wrote:
John wrote:
I thought Southgate made a mistake sticking with Alli, .


Biggest error - he was next to useless. Pure reputation.

I think he was trying to demonstrate his willingness to stand by the players but when it’s not working ... Loftus Cheek looked excellent in his cameo in one of the early games and he must be pretty pissed off he never got another chance.


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Post #497035  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:21 am 
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The issue was basically you have 2 world class midfielders againest Henderson in the middle as Ali and Lingard just want to run forward and attack rather than distribute. When Henderson went off it just collapsed

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Post #497036  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:25 am 
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John wrote:
Daz wrote:

Yeah we did. On penalties.

Didn’t win the match is what I meant


No we did. On penalties.


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Post #497037  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:26 am 
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There was another example of this confusion but I can't bring it to mind right now...


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Post #497038  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:51 am 
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England losing just goes to show how much luck it takes to win a world cup. Much better teams had already exited giving England the easiest possible draw they could ever hope for. Unfortunately at the same time they also didnt have some of the players they probably needed to take advantage. Doesnt take away from this tournament though which has overall been excellent.

French overwhelming favourites but will be supporting Croatia to win it now.


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Post #497039  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 am 
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Daz wrote:
There was another example of this confusion but I can't bring it to mind right now...

Rings a bell ok, think there was some issue over a big island having mesh or something involved..


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Post #497040  Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:57 am 
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Daz wrote:
There was another example of this confusion but I can't bring it to mind right now...


NZ didn't win the 2010 World Cup despite being unbeaten.

I can imagine the Columbians suing Fifa for losing despite not losing.


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