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Post #495121  Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Ray Wilson RIP happy memories of you holding the World Cup trophy in '66.


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Post #495122  Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Vince Ordinaire wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

Well I'm not sure what you are saying ........ I'm saying I think Vieira might be too much his own man for our board to handle .


Yeah I got that thanks Kiwi, it was more the Clough/Redknapp comparison that caught my attention like a rabid ferret dropped in the bathwater.
What does encourage me about Arteta - aside from it being change at last, an interesting choice, and the fact that characters as unlikely as mild-mannered physio Bertie Mee and obnoxious interpreter Jose Mourinho have become such successful managers - is that he was the personal choice of Pep Guardiola to be his number two at City.

Much as I love him, I am not so impressed by Henry being the personal choice of Roberto Martinez.

Vince ...... I can't see why Clough / Redknapp produced the 'wolverine in the tub '.... at the time Clough was punching well above his weight in the league , and Harry's Spurs WERE playing excellent football .

Agree on Arteta ... if the watch story is true it is a bit of a kiss arse which I don't agree with .....but shows as manager with even more power he wont worry about ruffling a few feathers and let's face it there are a few that need a large rocket up their backside to produce better results.

I'm not keen on Thierry because the few times I've seen him on the Sky Pundits show , he hogs the limelight , rabbits on far too long .... get your point across then shut up .


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Post #495123  Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Niall wrote:
Personally, I don't think Henry has the personality required to be the manager.

I'd make exactly the same point about Arteta, Niall. You call Henry tedious. Ye Gods, if Henry is tedious I'd say Arteta is extreme boredom x 10. But more important than that, I think the club needs a manager who will go in and 'kick arse' to rid the squad of the complacency that often seems to strangle our performances. From what I've seen of Arteta, that isn't him.

He appears intelligent, which is a positive. But also too reserved, introverted, quiet and a bit of a risk avoider for what I think we now need. For that reason I'd say Arteta is at the wrong place at the wrong time for the current Arsenal. At a worst case scenario I think we could even be moving from the Wenger frying pan into the Ar,teta fire.

Yes but I think you make the mistake thinking Arteta has to be the complete package , a good right hand man can cover any areas he might be lacking in .

Talking of tedium ....watching the Europa final ..... Mama Mia the co commentator providing riveting insights is none other than that dribbling d***stop from the Anfield '89 ....... David Pleat .

Second point ....why do morons let off flares ...you can hardly see the players or the pitch now . Can't do your lungs a hell of lot of good either .


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Post #495124  Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Quite a clear out of Wenger's back room team. So far I've seen Primoric, Banfield, Colbert, Peyton, Bibbo, Lewin, Johnson and through retirement Akers reported as going. From the youth set'up it looks a fairly safe bet that Gatting and Laraman will soon be looking for work.

But not HoddGooner :22encouragement: :toothy9:

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Post #495125  Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:27 pm 
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The Guardian's view on each Premier League team's best player this season. I agree with them about Arsenal's. He had some poor games but Monreal gets my vote as our player of the season.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/wh ... ubs-season

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Post #495126  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:50 am 
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If wondering about what kind of playing philosophy Arteta might have there are some interesting quotes here...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cybrown/20 ... 8893ce285c


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Post #495127  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:58 am 
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HoddGooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Quite a clear out of Wenger's back room team. So far I've seen Primoric, Banfield, Colbert, Peyton, Bibbo, Lewin, Johnson and through retirement Akers reported as going. From the youth set'up it looks a fairly safe bet that Gatting and Laraman will soon be looking for work.

But not HoddGooner :22encouragement: :toothy9:

If the truth's known you probably don't even work there you poser , probably sort out the brass , copper and ali from the ferrous metals down at the local breakers yard .... and make the teas .

All this shady 'Martin Bormann' stuff behind the scenes , Socrates comes up with more scoops than you . :toothy9:


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Post #495128  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 4:49 am 
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Atletico gets the cup we could have won if we hadn't have messed it up in the first leg.
Anyway, a new era is upon us. I don't care who is going to be the manager (fat Sam excepted). Its not Wenger and very few people saw that coming.

We will probably mess up the process of finding a manger. Not coordinate the window with a new manger, etc but its a change and even if it gets worse before it gets better, I'll still take that instead of Wenger.


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Post #495129  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:38 am 
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Since we’ve moved to the emirates there are two clear eras, the first when the budget was restricted and we made an estimated £40m profit in transfers from 2006-2013. The second when the shackles were released and we’ve spent £200m net between 2014-2018.

So even in the ‘spending years’ we’re hitting a transfer budget of roughly £50m per season. In the frugal years the budget was more like minus £7m per season.

What I never understand is right now we are hearing talk of a restricted budget of £50m for new players. I can see that because we don’t have CL football and that we’ve invested quite heavily (badly) in the last few years why we might have to watch the pennies but how with our vast resources even having to pay off the stadium are we so far behind thee net spend of so many prem clubs? I’m ignoring city, Chelsea, Man U. And I’m not even thinking that much about Liverpool and spurs. I’m looking at clubs like stoke, palace etc.

We’ve potentially ‘lost’ allegri because he wants too much of a transfer budget and too much pay. The pay part is ridiculous as that would be the equivalent of a couple of million per season which to get a manager of that ilk is worth paying.

I’m glad the wenger years are over but I’m so fed up with the club being so obviously reluctant to put their hand in their pocket. How can a club like Everton drop £150m in a single window and not have to worry about financial fair play whilst we scrabble around trying to make a profit each window?


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Post #495130  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:48 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I'd make exactly the same point about Arteta, Niall. You call Henry tedious. Ye Gods, if Henry is tedious I'd say Arteta is extreme boredom x 10. But more important than that, I think the club needs a manager who will go in and 'kick arse' to rid the squad of the complacency that often seems to strangle our performances. From what I've seen of Arteta, that isn't him.

He appears intelligent, which is a positive. But also too reserved, introverted, quiet and a bit of a risk avoider for what I think we now need. For that reason I'd say Arteta is at the wrong place at the wrong time for the current Arsenal. At a worst case scenario I think we could even be moving from the Wenger frying pan into the Ar,teta fire.

Yes but I think you make the mistake thinking Arteta has to be the complete package , a good right hand man can cover any areas he might be lacking in .

Didn't mean to give that impression. But anyway, couldn't one offer your argument for anyone, maybe apart from Wenger? Including Henry, who I was responding to Niall's comments on?

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Post #495131  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:08 am 
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Bernard wrote:
The Guardian's view on each Premier League team's best player this season. I agree with them about Arsenal's. He had some poor games but Monreal gets my vote as our player of the season.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/wh ... ubs-season

Says something about the season we had, because I don’t think Monreal was particularly great but I struggle to think of someone who had a better season.


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Post #495132  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:28 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
socrates wrote:

I can't believe I've made all those posts in an attempt to educate the masses and quite clearly I've clearly failed miserably. :laughing7:

Hardly suprising no one reads them ..... :laughing7:


Who rattled your mobility scooter.

I will have you know that Gazidis contacted me to ask if I was interested in taking the manager's job. He said he and the board had been reading my posts on here for years and it was quite clear that if I took the job I would win the quadruple in my first season. :laughing7:


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Post #495133  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:32 am 
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:1laughter:
kiwipete wrote:
HoddGooner wrote:
But not HoddGooner :22encouragement: :toothy9:

If the truth's known you probably don't even work there you poser , probably sort out the brass , copper and ali from the ferrous metals down at the local breakers yard .... and make the teas .

All this shady 'Martin Bormann' stuff behind the scenes , Socrates comes up with more scoops than you . :toothy9:

:1laughter: :53big-emoticons:

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Post #495134  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:33 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Yes but I think you make the mistake thinking Arteta has to be the complete package , a good right hand man can cover any areas he might be lacking in .

I think this is what we’ll see going forward, no matter who the new manager is. There are some reports in Germany that we’re in advanced talks with Dortmund about their central defender Sokratis, and this is with us not having appointed a new manager. A clear indication that the manager is not expected to be primarily responsible for player recruitment the way Wenger was.


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Post #495135  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:33 am 
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socrates wrote:
I will have you know that Gazidis contacted me to ask if I was interested in taking the manager's job.

I thought you were supposed to be our new central defender.


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Post #495136  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:39 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
socrates wrote:
I will have you know that Gazidis contacted me to ask if I was interested in taking the manager's job.

I thought you were supposed to be our new central defender.


Player manager. I am the new libero.


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Post #495137  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:51 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
I think this is what we’ll see going forward, no matter who the new manager is. There are some reports in Germany that we’re in advanced talks with Dortmund about their central defender Sokratis, and this is with us not having appointed a new manager. A clear indication that the manager is not expected to be primarily responsible for player recruitment the way Wenger was.

Whether it's true or not the firm impression I'm getting is that Mislintat has a lot of power on the players being signed. Not that surprising if he's head of recruitment. His primary focus does seem to be players he knows from Dortmund, where obviously he came from. On Talksport I heard someone crack a light-hearted jibe that he's trying to turn Arsenal into Dortmund. My guess would be that it was Andy Jacobs, though I'm not sure.

If that is what he's trying to do, I'd prefer him to turn Arsenal into Bayern.

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Post #495138  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:53 am 
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socrates wrote:
Player manager. I am the new libero.

Seems easy enough. Stay behind Mustafi, if the ball is coming towards him it’ll probably end up with you.


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Post #495139  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:31 am 
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Just don't see how anybody can have much of an opinion on Arteta. We don't know just like we wouldn't know about the impact of any other manager experienced or otherwise. Mourinho is experienced - also a *%^@ who plays boring football. I thought we WANTED some fun and uncertainty?

By the way he was a much better player than some are suggesting especially at Everton. If he's smart, if Pep's opinion of him is warranted, if he builds a good connection with the fans then it could be a really interesting appointment. We don't know - and that's a factor that's been missing so long that I would be grateful for it.


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Post #495140  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:37 am 
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The case againest Arteta outlined perfectly

http://onlinegooner.com/article.php?sec ... v0-y9HTWhA

Won't write him off and he gets my full support but I fear the worst. What if he loses his first 4 games and people start doubting his experience.

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Post #495141  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:39 am 
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Also I'm not in any way religious but if he did genuinely use charity money that was collected from fines due to be sent to the lung function unit at great ormond street children's hospital to buy his boss a Patek Phillipe then he is a pagan and deserves to go to hell when judgement comes.

Cheers

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Post #495142  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:55 am 
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Daz wrote:
We don't know - and that's a factor that's been missing so long that I would be grateful for it.

Quite right. And contrary to what many think, I see this as a football decision. If it was just about saving money they wouldn’t have extended Wenger with his huge salary. If it was a pr exercise they could’ve appointed Vieira and gotten ten times the amount of goodwill. I think they have a type of football in mind for the team, and they see Arteta as someone who can execute it. They could've made this a lot easier for themselves, but their job is not to make easy decisions.


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Post #495143  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:07 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
What if he loses his first 4 games and people start doubting his experience.


That long?

I was definitely in the Wenger Out camp by the end but Arsenal fans really are a bunch of spineless ninnies sometimes who deserve much of the ridicule they receive. Never *%^@*** happy, always with the negative Cuffley whine.

You said it was boring. You wanted him out.

Now get on with enjoying the uncertain times.


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Post #495144  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:19 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
socrates wrote:
Player manager. I am the new libero.

Seems easy enough. Stay behind Mustafi, if the ball is coming towards him it’ll probably end up with you.


Stay true to yourself though and denounce yourself online afterwards.


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Post #495145  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:28 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Also I'm not in any way religious but if he did genuinely use charity money that was collected from fines due to be sent to the lung function unit at great ormond street children's hospital to buy his boss a Patek Phillipe then he is a pagan and deserves to go to hell when judgement comes.

Cheers

Where/who is this story coming from?


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Post #495146  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:30 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Yes but I think you make the mistake thinking Arteta has to be the complete package , a good right hand man can cover any areas he might be lacking in .

I think this is what we’ll see going forward, no matter who the new manager is. There are some reports in Germany that we’re in advanced talks with Dortmund about their central defender Sokratis, and this is with us not having appointed a new manager. A clear indication that the manager is not expected to be primarily responsible for player recruitment the way Wenger was.

Actually Haz I reckon Arteta will be a great appointment ..... TG's posting further down , written by the bloke who styles himself the Bard is way off the mark .

" he has no experience " ... matters little in my opinion . All he has to have is a system he wants to play and implement it .

He's seen the set ups at Barcelona , PSG , Rangers , Everton , Arsenal and Man City must know what does and doesn't work .

I read an article today where Guardiola says to Mikel ... "Okay it's your team this week " and let him have the reins for three games in a row .
Arteta stayed back one on one for several hours each day with Sterling to improve his game .


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Post #495147  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:39 am 
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"Have to say I was very disappointed with myself today. I made Mertesacker look like Usain Bolt. Plus as manager I was completely clueless tactically and got trapped in an endless cycle of futile tippy-happy. Cannot wait for the day I leave the club. Socrates Out."


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Post #495148  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:03 am 
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socrates wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
I thought you were supposed to be our new central defender.


Player manager. I am the new libero.


Are you faster than the BFG?

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Post #495149  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:05 am 
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Daz wrote:
Just don't see how anybody can have much of an opinion on Arteta. We don't know just like we wouldn't know about the impact of any other manager experienced or otherwise. Mourinho is experienced - also a *%^@ who plays boring football. I thought we WANTED some fun and uncertainty?

By the way he was a much better player than some are suggesting especially at Everton. If he's smart, if Pep's opinion of him is warranted, if he builds a good connection with the fans then it could be a really interesting appointment. We don't know - and that's a factor that's been missing so long that I would be grateful for it.


I'd be willing to accept Arteta simply because he's an unknown. Hungry, with a point to prove. Better than a dinosaur like Ancelotti anyway.

Like you, and I'm sure lots of others, I want some fun and uncertainty. Better than groundhog day any time.

(And a little part of me will miss Wenger.)

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Post #495150  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:12 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
The case againest Arteta outlined perfectly

http://onlinegooner.com/article.php?sec ... v0-y9HTWhA

Won't write him off and he gets my full support but I fear the worst. What if he loses his first 4 games and people start doubting his experience.

Its a very ill researched piece - on a number of the questions it answers in the negative it doesn't take into account what involvement and responsibilities he actually has in his current role at City.
Experience gained being a number 2 at any club very much depends on the relationship between them and the manager - e.g. Zeljko Buvac is widely lauded as being the tactical brains behind his partnership with Klopp; whereas Bouldy very much had his wings clipped under Wenger.
If you assume he has a large involvement (and yes I know we have no evidence for that) it would be just easy to say we have no evidence that he doesn't have the ability to do a number of the things quoted.

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Post #495151  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:17 am 
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Daz wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
What if he loses his first 4 games and people start doubting his experience.


That long?

I was definitely in the Wenger Out camp by the end but Arsenal fans really are a bunch of spineless ninnies sometimes who deserve much of the ridicule they receive. Never *%^@*** happy, always with the negative Cuffley whine.

You said it was boring. You wanted him out.

Now get on with enjoying the uncertain times.


You know what I disagree we aren't a whiny bunch generally but 10 years of Wenger past his best has created an unfair portrayal as the anguish increased. Also social media hasn't helped.

I'm thoroughly looking forward to the new era and plan on taking my kids to a shedload of Arsenal games next season. Also as I said previously if any Arsenal fan is being critical of the next manager be it Arteta or whoever over the next couple of years then that's bang out of order considering the mess Wenger has left. The whole fan base needs to unify and get behind the new regime (who are probably on a hiding to nothing)

All of that said it doesn't make me a less of a fan to have certain doubts about Artetas credentials for the job, which I certainly do.

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Post #495152  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:23 am 
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HoddGooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
The case againest Arteta outlined perfectly

http://onlinegooner.com/article.php?sec ... v0-y9HTWhA

Won't write him off and he gets my full support but I fear the worst. What if he loses his first 4 games and people start doubting his experience.

Its a very ill researched piece - on a number of the questions it answers in the negative it doesn't take into account what involvement and responsibilities he actually has in his current role at City.
Experience gained being a number 2 at any club very much depends on the relationship between them and the manager - e.g. Zeljko Buvac is widely lauded as being the tactical brains behind his partnership with Klopp; whereas Bouldy very much had his wings clipped under Wenger.
If you assume he has a large involvement (and yes I know we have no evidence for that) it would be just easy to say we have no evidence that he doesn't have the ability to do a number of the things quoted.


I think you have just summed up what the author was trying to get across. In essence it's a blind appointment, there is no evidence to suggest he's good enough for the job or not good enough. It's just blind and selection is based on strength of character. Must be brilliant to work in professional football, just get a stack of money every which way you look regardless of achievement

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Post #495153  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:28 am 
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Whoever is the new manager, it would be great if he won the first 4 games, but my goodness, what pressure he will put on himself doing so.

I reckon this team is capable of much more that they showed under Wenger; hopefully the new manager will give them some structure and confidence, and also a little bit of fear.

Losing the first 4 games wouldn't be a massive problem for me, IF there was evidence that something new was being tried and there was less tippy tappy and more aggressive directness. Oh and a couple of shots on target from outside the box every 15 mins or so would keep me happy even if results weren't going well.

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Post #495154  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:34 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
HoddGooner wrote:
Its a very ill researched piece - on a number of the questions it answers in the negative it doesn't take into account what involvement and responsibilities he actually has in his current role at City.
Experience gained being a number 2 at any club very much depends on the relationship between them and the manager - e.g. Zeljko Buvac is widely lauded as being the tactical brains behind his partnership with Klopp; whereas Bouldy very much had his wings clipped under Wenger.
If you assume he has a large involvement (and yes I know we have no evidence for that) it would be just easy to say we have no evidence that he doesn't have the ability to do a number of the things quoted.


I think you have just summed up what the author was trying to get across. In essence it's a blind appointment, there is no evidence to suggest he's good enough for the job or not good enough. It's just blind and selection is based on strength of character. Must be brilliant to work in professional football, just get a stack of money every which way you look regardless of achievement

That's a distortion of what I said - I was pointing out that he has just posed the questions and answered them without doing any research.
By saying it is a blind appointment, you are assuming that those making the decision have no more information than we do, which is highly unlikely.
They will have done some due diligence I'm sure, which makes them better placed to make any decision than any of us.
In the past I have said I don't trust the board to appoint the right person to replace Wenger, but having Sven Mislintat & Raul Sanllehi tempers that somewhat.

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Post #495155  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:36 am 
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tomc wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Also I'm not in any way religious but if he did genuinely use charity money that was collected from fines due to be sent to the lung function unit at great ormond street children's hospital to buy his boss a Patek Phillipe then he is a pagan and deserves to go to hell when judgement comes.

Cheers

Where/who is this story coming from?

And, for that matter, who is he talking about? Other than that - great post.

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Post #495156  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:40 am 
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I am very disappointed already. Arteta Out.


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Post #495157  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:43 am 
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My list to replace Arteta.

Socrates.

Owen Coyle.

Wenger.


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Post #495158  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:45 am 
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john1 wrote:
Losing the first 4 games wouldn't be a massive problem for me, IF there was evidence that something new was being tried and there was less tippy tappy and more aggressive directness.

Agree with this. Top four is a reasonable target next season, but I will be looking more at how we actually play. If there seems to be better defensive organization, if our attacking football is played with more pace and directness. If we get those things going in the right direction good results will follow.


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Post #495159  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:50 am 
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Location: The Go-Between Bridge

john1 wrote:
socrates wrote:

Player manager. I am the new libero.


Are you faster than the BFG?


Or to put it another way: are you a functioning biped?


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Post #495160  Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:59 am 
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Posts: 2227

Daz wrote:
My list to replace Arteta.

Socrates.

Owen Coyle.

Wenger.

Yep, Arteta out. Other possible replacements:

Robert from the Go-Betweens.

That thing you use to find a stud in a wall.

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There's nothing special about it, it's just my hair. It doesn't move much and I am lucky.


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