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Post #476761  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:49 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Niall wrote:
Out of interest, if you want all of these things, why would you sacrifice all of them for a no-nonsense attitude on Europe?


Because the devil in the dock is the EU not May. The Eu going bust overnight would have to be supported by us as when the Greeks were baled out last time. £7.6 billion iirc.




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Post #476762  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Stans a great bloke, takes a 2 million advisory fee out the club and hands Half to trump

http://www.cityam.com/263188/arsenal-ow ... =dvTwitter

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Post #476763  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Daz wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

Because the devil in the dock is the EU not May. The Eu going bust overnight would have to be supported by us as when the Greeks were baled out last time. £7.6 billion iirc.




Your comments are borne out of ignorance. Whether tyou like him or not he is not responsible for the mess we are in. In fact had his policies been pursued a lot more people would be better off and have services they can rely on.

What have the elite done for themselves and for others less fortunate than them?


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Post #476764  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:40 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Stans a great bloke, takes a 2 million advisory fee out the club and hands Half to trump

http://www.cityam.com/263188/arsenal-ow ... =dvTwitter

Just spotted this in the comments of the quoted Twitter article, "Arsenal are the equivalent of the Trump administration. Unpopular and sinking with and old idiot in charge." Tut tut...


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Post #476765  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:39 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Daz wrote:



Your comments are borne out of ignorance. Whether tyou like him or not he is not responsible for the mess we are in. In fact had his policies been pursued a lot more people would be better off and have services they can rely on.

What have the elite done for themselves and for others less fortunate than them?


Now you've really lost me.


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Post #476766  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Wenger hinting he's going to play 3 centre halves again Sunday. Surely if he does this we're going to get over run in midfield by silva and co.

Also he's missing the point, our issues aren't because of numbers just lack of collective cohesion and individual error. 3 centre halves doesn't fix this.

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Post #476767  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:09 pm 
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Quick update ....anyone who makes more than 70k a year is a wanker and deserves to be shot and removed from the earth immediately


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90156.html

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Post #476768  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:34 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Quick update ....anyone who makes more than 70k a year is a wanker and deserves to be shot and removed from the earth immediately


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90156.html


That's me knackered then.


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Post #476769  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Niall wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
I want what Jeremy wants, I've always been a fan b if the elite get a sniff of him winning they will find a way to wreck his chances.

Believe me I am really torn...........

Out of interest, if you want all of these things, why would you sacrifice all of them for a no-nonsense attitude on Europe?

Arsenal should sacrifice everything for a no nonsense attitude to Europe!


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Post #476770  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:14 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Quick update ....anyone who makes more than 70k a year is a wanker and deserves to be shot and removed from the earth immediately


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90156.html

Come on, less fake news. The Gleiber has higher standards surely.

That is the ridiculous comment not the link.

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Post #476771  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:17 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Quick update ....anyone who makes more than 70k a year is a wanker and deserves to be shot and removed from the earth immediately


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90156.html
Not really. If they are dead they won't be paying taxes, which is the point of it.

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Post #476772  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:19 pm 
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Northbank Memories wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Quick update ....anyone who makes more than 70k a year is a wanker and deserves to be shot and removed from the earth immediately


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90156.html


That's me knackered then.
Worth considering voting Tory? That should solve the problem.

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Post #476773  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:25 pm 
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Anyone earning over 70k should contribute more imo and I'm going to guess TG, though I might be wrong, you would be unaffected. As I would. However the policy should be combined with a long overdue clamp down on tax avoidance.

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Post #476774  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Niall wrote:
Out of interest, if you want all of these things, why would you sacrifice all of them for a no-nonsense attitude on Europe?

Arsenal should sacrifice everything for a no nonsense attitude to Europe!

Indeed. Maybe when all the foreigners are sent home we'll be in there....

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Post #476775  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Anyone earning over 70k should contribute more imo and I'm going to guess TG, though I might be wrong, you would be unaffected. As I would. However the policy should be combined with a long overdue clamp down on tax avoidance.

I'd be affected and as a traditional labour voter find it a little offensive this guys comments as I've come from a working class background and worked myself up. It's not the money just this type of behaviour doesn't breed success

Why would I be moaning otherwise

Although you know I love a moan mate by now :laughing7:

Would you consider a single income family who earn say 70k a year "rich" ? Well that's what's being said here.

I Find this class politics a little boring from Corbyn and co as I contribute a lot and have never ever resented paying more tax. My family grew up in social housing.

How will they win the middle ground ? Answer is they won't, they will get thrashed and rightly so

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Post #476776  Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Niall wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Quick update ....anyone who makes more than 70k a year is a wanker and deserves to be shot and removed from the earth immediately


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90156.html

Come on, less fake news. The Gleiber has higher standards surely.

That is the ridiculous comment not the link.


Fake news ! I was listening to radio 5 yesterday and he came on and said it.

What tactic is that to gain the middle vote. Great thinking lads

Corbyn and McDonnells messaging are akin to early 1900 communism and would never win an election

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Post #476777  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:01 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Quick update ....anyone who makes more than 70k a year is a wanker and deserves to be shot and removed from the earth immediately


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90156.html
Not really. If they are dead they won't be paying taxes, which is the point of it.


Ok it was a jokey sarcastic comment but the real message Corbyn and his looney mates would love to push out.

Jezza and co aren't even bothered about it anyway it's just messaging to satisfy his cronies in the Labour Party and push out the moderates which is his only concern not an election. It's an irrelevance, they won't win but still resent success.

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Post #476778  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Northbank Memories wrote:

That's me knackered then.
Worth considering voting Tory? That should solve the problem.


I left school with no qualifications. I worked hard learning my job and am quite good at it. Did what i needed to and did reasonably well and paying £20k tax and insurance. Maybe i should pay more.

Plus the fact i have been in work for 45 years, save three months at my choice when i was 18. Always paid taxes and insurance, which in turn means I get a reasonable state pension when I retire as well as my private pension.

Never sat on my arse at home and expected anyone else to support me.


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Post #476779  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:51 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Ok it was a jokey sarcastic comment but the real message Corbyn and his looney mates would love to push out. Jezza and co aren't even bothered about it anyway it's just messaging to satisfy his cronies in the Labour Party and push out the moderates which is his only concern not an election. It's an irrelevance, they won't win but still resent success.
There is a serious point to be made if we want decent public services in our country. Somebody has to pay for them. Truth is raiding the super-rich makes for good headlines but doesn't do the job, and with the average annual income in the UK about £27k, nor does hitting the lower earners. The middle to upper middle ground is where the taxman has to go for more. The question is then whether you believe somebody earning 70k+ is 'rich'. Might seem that way to those folks on 27k and less?

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Post #476780  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:56 am 
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If Wenger leaves, why would the Juve manager come to us? In truth, isn't it a step down? I'm not seeing the improvement other than pay.


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Post #476781  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:03 am 
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Northbank Memories wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Worth considering voting Tory? That should solve the problem.


I left school with no qualifications. I worked hard learning my job and am quite good at it. Did what i needed to and did reasonably well and paying £20k tax and insurance. Maybe i should pay more.

Plus the fact i have been in work for 45 years, save three months at my choice when i was 18. Always paid taxes and insurance, which in turn means I get a reasonable state pension when I retire as well as my private pension.

Never sat on my arse at home and expected anyone else to support me.
Love her or loath her what Thatcher did change was the public's attitude towards income tax. I come from a similar time as you, and while we never enjoyed paying income tax, before the 80s it was a given. Along with social housing (remember when we called it council housing?) that mould was broken and the country has been living with the consequences ever since. The financial crisis of 2008 and the undeniable public service and benefit cuts that have followed now leave us needing a different approach to taxation. Or we could just let things crumble.

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Post #476782  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:08 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
If Wenger leaves, why would the Juve manager come to us? In truth, isn't it a step down? I'm not seeing the improvement other than pay.
Yes it would be a step down in prestige. Juventus' status in world football is far and away superior to Arsenal's, but the Premier League is a financial gravy train everybody wants to get on.

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Post #476783  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:22 am 
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What dreadful news about Ugo Ehiogu. Only 44. So very sad.

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Post #476784  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:44 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Ok it was a jokey sarcastic comment but the real message Corbyn and his looney mates would love to push out. Jezza and co aren't even bothered about it anyway it's just messaging to satisfy his cronies in the Labour Party and push out the moderates which is his only concern not an election. It's an irrelevance, they won't win but still resent success.
There is a serious point to be made if we want decent public services in our country. Somebody has to pay for them. Truth is raiding the super-rich makes for good headlines but doesn't do the job, and with the average annual income in the UK about £27k, nor does hitting the lower earners. The middle to upper middle ground is where the taxman has to go for more. The question is then whether you believe somebody earning 70k+ is 'rich'. Might seem that way to those folks on 27k and less?


Hang on a minute if your earning over 70k your already paying double the tax of someone on 27k. Isn't that enough?

Basic rate £11,501 to £45,000 20%

Higher rate £45,001 to £150,000 40%


Also this doesn't include all the stealth tax stuff like the new speeding fines where they won't tell you what your fine is until you send them your P60 or something :laughing7:

Don't get me wrong I have some sympathy here but the sneering from labour on this doesn't help them win the political middle ground.

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Post #476785  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:26 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hang on a minute if your earning over 70k your already paying double the tax of someone on 27k. Isn't that enough?...Don't get me wrong I have some sympathy here but the sneering from labour on this doesn't help them win the political middle ground.
Probably not if we want to keep public services at the sort of level needed for a harmonious and successful society. In my first job earning a fortune of £650 per annum, the standard rate of income tax was 41%! That went on for years until the mould was broken. Admittedly in those pre-EEC days the money went further as there was no such thing as the regressive VAT which governments prefer to levy. I don't think Labour are sneering over this issue, but offering an alternative way of raising much-needed funds. The awful Lib Dems have often talked about income tax rises too. It is at the heart of the UK's future as a fair and decent society, but it most likely won't work electorally for either party because people now have an aversion to paying income tax, which my generation accepted, albeit with moans.

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Post #476786  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:44 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
which my generation accepted, albeit with moans.




I pay the top rate of tax and would very happily see it increased to at least 50% but preferably higher still. Current level is ridiculous and anybody who moans about paying a bit more is a selfish greedy *%^@ end of story.

Given housing conditions though, 70K in London as a family income won't get you that far and I would keep my tax increases for those who can really afford to pay it.

The EEC though, Hoy, honestly! Do you still go on holiday to the continent?

- They have these pastries, Ada, shaped like crabs and they're called croissants which is French for crab. And they don't have sheets and blankets like us, no, they have these sort of quilts and they call them duvets, it took me a bit of time to get used to them but they're ever so comfortable.

- Ooh I'm not sure, Mr Hoy, not with my lumbago, and stow it with that nonsense about the Liberal Party - why wasn't it that nice Mr Lloyd George who gave us our pensions?


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Post #476787  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:45 am 
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Northbank Memories wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Worth considering voting Tory? That should solve the problem.


I left school with no qualifications. I worked hard learning my job and am quite good at it. Did what i needed to and did reasonably well and paying £20k tax and insurance. Maybe i should pay more.

Plus the fact i have been in work for 45 years, save three months at my choice when i was 18. Always paid taxes and insurance, which in turn means I get a reasonable state pension when I retire as well as my private pension.

Never sat on my arse at home and expected anyone else to support me.

You had opportunities that don't exist today. Free education, cheap housing, good pension schemes, retirement at 65.

Our kids aren't going to have it so good w/o radical change.

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Post #476788  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:49 am 
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Northbank Memories wrote:
I worked hard learning my job and am quite good at it.


All those different colours for the Nespresso capsules must have been a new challenge?


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Post #476789  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:49 am 
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Daz wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
which my generation accepted, albeit with moans.

70K in London as a family income won't get you that far and I would keep my tax increases for those who can really afford to pay it.

I forgot about London wages being so much bigger.
Median wage in NI and north of England is 22K or thereabouts. Someone on 70K is rich, imo, but maybe not so in London. I'd be doubling my own salary if I shifted over there.

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Post #476790  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:07 am 
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Niall wrote:
Daz wrote:
70K in London as a family income won't get you that far and I would keep my tax increases for those who can really afford to pay it.

I forgot about London wages being so much bigger.
Median wage in NI and north of England is 22K or thereabouts. Someone on 70K is rich, imo, but maybe not so in London. I'd be doubling my own salary if I shifted over there.


70k would still be a very good salary in London but it wouldn't get you on the housing ladder if it was your total family income and childcare is also really difficult. You can pay £1600 a month for a one-bedroom flat.

Politically, I wouldn't have set that even as a ballpark figure as it immediately gives the Tories ammunition to say that Labour is anti-aspirational.

The fundamental message should have been about the top tax bracket which is too low at 40% and tax avoidance by big corporations.


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Post #476791  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:28 am 
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I can go with the flow
But don't say it doesn't matter anymore
I can go with the flow
Do you believe it in your head?

Oh yes, profound.

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Post #476792  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:00 am 
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Daz wrote:
Northbank Memories wrote:
I worked hard learning my job and am quite good at it.


All those different colours for the Nespresso capsules must have been a new challenge?


LOL's. It was Daz


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Post #476793  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:23 am 
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Daz wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
which my generation accepted, albeit with moans.




I pay the top rate of tax and would very happily see it increased to at least 50% but preferably higher still. Current level is ridiculous and anybody who moans about paying a bit more is a selfish greedy *%^@ end of story.

Given housing conditions though, 70K in London as a family income won't get you that far and I would keep my tax increases for those who can really afford to pay it.

The EEC though, Hoy, honestly! Do you still go on holiday to the continent?

- They have these pastries, Ada, shaped like crabs and they're called croissants which is French for crab. And they don't have sheets and blankets like us, no, they have these sort of quilts and they call them duvets, it took me a bit of time to get used to them but they're ever so comfortable.

- Ooh I'm not sure, Mr Hoy, not with my lumbago, and stow it with that nonsense about the Liberal Party - why wasn't it that nice Mr Lloyd George who gave us our pensions?
Love Europe, me. Especially Italy, home of The Old Lady and so much more besides. Fact is VAT came with EEC membership - we didn't have it before. The current 20% is a scandal as it hits everybody regardless of income. Remember when it was about 7%? That was reasonable.

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Post #476794  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:29 am 
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Niall wrote:
Daz wrote:
70K in London as a family income won't get you that far and I would keep my tax increases for those who can really afford to pay it.

I forgot about London wages being so much bigger.
Median wage in NI and north of England is 22K or thereabouts. Someone on 70K is rich, imo, but maybe not so in London. I'd be doubling my own salary if I shifted over there.
An individual earning 70k is far above the norm in London and the vast majority of households don't have that much coming in.

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Post #476795  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:49 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
The current 20% is a scandal as it hits everybody regardless of income. Remember when it was about 7%? That was reasonable.


Yes because income tax which is a very good thing has become a taboo tax because of the same unelected sin patria media moguls who have stirred up racism, attacked human rights, and referred to those who dissent or show opposition as "saboteurs" and "traitors" and are just generally stinking the country out.

All the fault of those cynical and anti-democratic Liberals.


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Post #476796  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:09 pm 
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London is similar to NYC. Both bleeding expensive. 70 GBP is about 90k USD. I recall telling a friend no way I'd live in NYC for less than 100k and I'm single with no kids (that I claim :icon_mrgreen: ). For a wife and a child? Its middle..middle class. I wouldn't call it upper class when all is said and done. Maybe near upper middle.

Were I making that in London I'd find a low income but gentrifying area...south London, southeast, etc.


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Post #476797  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:49 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Were I making that in London I'd find a low income but gentrifying area...south London, southeast, etc.


Hearing very good things about Bromley.


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Post #476798  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:01 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Fact is VAT came with EEC membership - we didn't have it before. The current 20% is a scandal as it hits everybody regardless of income. Remember when it was about 7%? That was reasonable.


Actually it did and was called purchase tax.


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Post #476799  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Daz wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
The current 20% is a scandal as it hits everybody regardless of income. Remember when it was about 7%? That was reasonable.


Yes because income tax which is a very good thing has become a taboo tax because of the same unelected sin patria media moguls who have stirred up racism, attacked human rights, and referred to those who dissent or show opposition as "saboteurs" and "traitors" and are just generally stinking the country out.

All the fault of those cynical and anti-democratic Liberals.

In Ireland the taboo was circumvented by coming up with a brand new tax called Universal Social Charge which was brought in as a temporary measure when the financial crisis hit. It was essentially an additional income tax and while the crisis has gone the USC remains. The higher tax rate of 40% kicks in at c€34k here. If you earn €50k + your effective marginal tax rate is c50%.

There is certainly an argument that middle-income earners are paying more than their fair share here. We couldn't even successfully implement a charge on domestic water use.

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Post #476800  Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:10 pm 
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dec wrote:
We couldn't even successfully implement a charge on domestic water use.

Yes, that was a great victory for the common man. People should not have to pay for water.

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